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Thread: If another manager enquired about one of your players...

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    Default If another manager enquired about one of your players...

    ...how would you respond? Specifically, they simply ask: what do you want for 'this player', when you haven't had any prior discussion.

    I'll give you more context: say you had put a few players on the trading block, which for me means that I'm willing to deal any of them for the right price, but I'm not necessarily actively shopping them. So, I don't have a set value next to each of them, that depends on the trading partner and team needs, situation etc.

    In this scenario, would you:

    - tell them who exactly you are looking for (if you know) or try to find an offer for them?
    - tell them roughly what I would expect for that player (e.g. not name-specific but to help guide them)
    - tell them to make you an offer and negotiate from there,
    - combination of any of the above, and/or
    - something else?

    The way I look at it is that if they are enquiring about one of your players (without prior discussion), the onus is on them to make you an offer. I wouldn't necessarily go back and say I want x, y and z because I'd rather they put a bit of effort into the offer rather than me making it easy for them. I would probably give them a bit of context but have them make the initial offer. Especially if I'm not actively shopping that player so I may not know exactly who I want for them (that could vary depending on the initial offer).

    How do you normally approach this situation?

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    Default Re: If another manager enquired about one of your players...

    Personally, I respond with what I want only slightly favored to my side. Trading partners are kept by giving them what they want and getting what you want. The crazy offers only happen when people have no clue

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    Default Re: If another manager enquired about one of your players...

    Whoa, took three edits there to get my meaning... Always try with a manager that is close, home runs are rare... Singles are good.

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    Default Re: If another manager enquired about one of your players...

    Personally, when I get messages like these I usually repond with something like "I haven't put much though into moving whoever, but I like x, y and z on your team, we can work something around that." Obviously if they're enquiring about Blake Wheeler dont go back with "well I like Ovechkin" or you might kill the discussions before they begin.

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    Default Re: If another manager enquired about one of your players...

    - tell them to make you an offer and negotiate from there
    The way I look at it is that if they are enquiring about one of your players (without prior discussion), the onus is on them to make you an offer
    .

    That is my belief.
    I would much rather be asked if a player is available. This way, I can respond with a "no" or a "yes, what would you like to offer?"

    But if you know the GMs in your league(s) then you can feel comfortable with using whatever approach works best with whichever GM.

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    Default Re: If another manager enquired about one of your players...

    I usually try and give up an idea of what I am looking to do with the player.

    "I'm looking to flip this guy to get an upgrade, or similar production at another position"
    "Looking to clear some space, so some pick would do"
    "Just seeing what this player could get on the trade market"

    I then explain what I'm looking for my team as a whole.

    "I'd love to add some PPP's to my lineup"
    "Want to get better at center. I'm strong at RW so don't need that."
    "Looking to compete this year, so players who are 2~3 years away won't cut it for me."
    "Need to add some depth / (alternatively) / looking to swap my depth into a stronger piece."

    Then I try to give out a more concrete example.

    "I like X, Y and Z from your team in general that could fit in this deal, and even A and B if you wanted to make something bigger."
    "Looking to try and get a x-lite type of production"

    When I make an enquiry, I want to know what exactly you're thinking : your needs, your wants, your expectations, who you like. If you don't tell me what you want out of the deal, I can't give you an offer that works for me and fits most of what you are looking for. I trade because my team has a hole somewhere and an excess somewhere else, and you have a piece that would fill my hole, and a hole I can fill too. If you want a trade that makes both of us happy, I have to know what it is that will make you happy. I can't guess that. If you're interested in something, you ask questions to get more info, and then decide if you want to make it work or look elsewhere. If you enquire, try and make an offer with what you're told.

    That's 3 easy things : why the player is on the block, what you are looking to do with your team, and who you would trade for.

    I don't enjoy going on this particular back and forth :

    A : "Hey, I saw your block, interested in X, what are you looking for?"
    B : "Oh hey, make an offer"
    A : "Got any preferences?"
    B : "Yeah, X is a great player, won't move him for cheap"
    A : "*sigh* Here's G side for your H side"
    B : "Nope, that won't cut it (with no reasoning, no explanation)"

    End the discussion there. If you want to make a deal, at least give me something to work with, or tell me right off you don't want to make a deal.
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    Default Re: If another manager enquired about one of your players...

    Quote Originally Posted by mojavedesert View Post
    - tell them to make you an offer and negotiate from there
    The way I look at it is that if they are enquiring about one of your players (without prior discussion), the onus is on them to make you an offer
    .

    That is my belief.
    I would much rather be asked if a player is available. This way, I can respond with a "no" or a "yes, what would you like to offer?"

    But if you know the GMs in your league(s) then you can feel comfortable with using whatever approach works best with whichever GM.

    To me this is why in a lot of leagues trades do not happen. Give me yours first. Who cares who offers first, look on what makes your team better.

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    Default Re: If another manager enquired about one of your players...

    I tell people that anyone (except Crosby) is available for the right price and to make me an offer.
    10 team, head-to-head, multi-cat, keep-12 keeper league. CATS: G,A,+/-,PPP,PIM,SOG,HITS BS,SHP, W,SV,SV%,GAA,SO Daily rosters of 6F, 4D, 2 Flex, 2G

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    Default Re: If another manager enquired about one of your players...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nights View Post
    I don't enjoy going on this particular back and forth :

    A : "Hey, I saw your block, interested in X, what are you looking for?"
    B : "Oh hey, make an offer"
    A : "Got any preferences?"
    B : "Yeah, X is a great player, won't move him for cheap"
    A : "*sigh* Here's G side for your H side"
    B : "Nope, that won't cut it (with no reasoning, no explanation)"

    End the discussion there. If you want to make a deal, at least give me something to work with, or tell me right off you don't want to make a deal.
    (+1)!!! I've had this dialogue a thousand times. It's amazing how many people (in real life and in fantasy) think that a trade is all about some form of power struggle, to prove who is greater. A good trade for both sides leads to someone who will deal with you again. And deal with you fairly, instead of trying to "make up for the last trade" and take advantage of you. It isnt a power struggle. Find a common middle ground. That means BOTH sides have to invest. Making the other guy put all his cards on the table isnt a sure fire way of winning a trade - it's a very likely way of killing any trade before it happens.

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    Default Re: If another manager enquired about one of your players...

    I prefer to get an offer, but if there is a player I really like on the other side and I think my player(s) will fill a need for the other GM, then I will come back with an offer to him. I'll also try and overpay a little bit on the offer as an enticement. I look at it this way - if a response to my OTB posting has piqued his interest and if he is really interested, I'm going to try and close the deal by trading him the players he covets.

    Conversely, if the other GM is not interested, this will be very apparent in his response to my offer.

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    Default Re: If another manager enquired about one of your players...

    Thanks for all your replies so far, it's greatly appreciated.

    My thoughts:

    I wouldn't just say 'make me an offer' unless I can't really see anyone of interest on the other manager's roster. But would respond with a 'at a glance I'm not sure but make me an offer' in case the other manager sees something. It may not amount to anything, but at least I'm not stopping the discussion from even starting.

    I would probably help a bit to give an idea of context but I don't agree that you have to give a full breakdown on what I'm looking for in return of the player you're asking about. If you are interested in one of my players, I would expect you to do a bit of homework and give a bit of context as well. Instead of asking me: 'what do you want for this player?' and nothing else, I would prefer you ask 'what do you want for this player, as I'm looking for a fit here/there, and perhaps you would be interested in this type of player? etc.' I appreciate other managers looking at what I may need when contacting me.

    I agree it goes both ways, but as the owner of those players, I don't necessarily know exactly what I want to accomplish with those players until I get someone asking about it. It can also depend on the other manager's needs so if I'm not given that info then it's more difficult to help.

    If I were in the other manager's shoes (i.e. the one enquiring about a player), sometimes I even just make an offer rather than asking 'what do you want' since it gives info to start with. Then you can focus on specific needs and eliminate what's not necessary. I don't like to drag on discussions, like you showed above, Nights, but info on both sides is important. But I do feel the onus is on the enquiring owner to get the ball rolling, so to speak.

    Good discussion.

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    Default Re: If another manager enquired about one of your players...

    Quote Originally Posted by horrorfan View Post
    ...how would you respond? Specifically, they simply ask: what do you want for 'this player', when you haven't had any prior discussion.

    I'll give you more context: say you had put a few players on the trading block, which for me means that I'm willing to deal any of them for the right price, but I'm not necessarily actively shopping them.

    The way I look at it is that if they are enquiring about one of your players (without prior discussion), the onus is on them to make you an offer.
    I completely disagree with both these points, and nothing personal, but I hate dealing with GM's like you.

    Point 1 - The "I'm willing to deal any of them for the right price" doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever...generally speaking most managers will move anyone for the right price to begin with.... Why list players on the block to state the obvious, and waste my time with pointless discussions?

    For me trading block means Im actively shopping x, y,z player and want them off my roster and am willing to deal. Last week for example I updated my block with 4 players and 3 are already traded, painless, quick negotiations.

    Another manager threw Eberle on his block,I enquired and got the " well not really looking to move Eberle unless I get an offer I can't refuse"...well then why is the hell is he on the block?

    Point 2 - Also don't get this, if someone takes the time to read YOUR trading block, and enquire about a player YOU have listed on your block YOU should have some idea for what you're after, and make it somewhat clear, otherwise you're wasting peoples time IMO

    Yeah if someone "cold calls" about one of your players the onus should be on them, but if its a player you listed it seems disingenuous if can't even throw out a rough asking price to kick off negotiations.....just seems like you're hoping someone makes a knee jerk overpayment.

    Anyway, good luck with future trades.

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    Default Re: If another manager enquired about one of your players...

    Quote Originally Posted by horrorfan View Post
    I agree it goes both ways, but as the owner of those players, I don't necessarily know exactly what I want to accomplish with those players until I get someone asking about it. It can also depend on the other manager's needs so if I'm not given that info then it's more difficult to help.

    If I were in the other manager's shoes (i.e. the one enquiring about a player), sometimes I even just make an offer rather than asking 'what do you want' since it gives info to start with. Then you can focus on specific needs and eliminate what's not necessary. I don't like to drag on discussions, like you showed above, Nights, but info on both sides is important. But I do feel the onus is on the enquiring owner to get the ball rolling, so to speak.
    Bingo. A lot of people seem to only look at trades as numbers. Just player X for Y. There is so much more context involved in a trade that people often ignore. There is definitely a part of that context you can gather yourself before making an offer. Knowing that you're going to try and acquire a veteran like Hossa is going to be easier if you know the team you are trading with is rebuilding and favors youth, and is particularly weak in his defense once you get past the first name. Trying to acquire Karlsson? Good luck. He's rebuilding, and his D is weak once Karlsson is out of the picture. Better to look elsewhere, or adjust your mindset and see if there isn't something you can give him that will make sense - to him and to you.

    Some people like to start with an offer. Some like to start with a feeler. It probably depends on the amount of interest you have in a player. If I'm super interested I'll make an offer right off the bat, and work from there. If I just want to see the price tag to see if it's worth my time, I'll just ask "What are you looking at?". Trading is more about context then people think.
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    Default Re: If another manager enquired about one of your players...

    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Shelf View Post
    I completely disagree with both these points, and nothing personal, but I hate dealing with GM's like you.

    Point 1 - The "I'm willing to deal any of them for the right price" doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever...generally speaking most managers will move anyone for the right price to begin with.... Why list players on the block to state the obvious, and waste my time with pointless discussions?

    For me trading block means Im actively shopping x, y,z player and want them off my roster and am willing to deal. Last week for example I updated my block with 4 players and 3 are already traded, painless, quick negotiations.

    Another manager threw Eberle on his block,I enquired and got the " well not really looking to move Eberle unless I get an offer I can't refuse"...well then why is the hell is he on the block?
    No offense taken but you shouldn't assume that when I say 'for the right price' I am stating that on the block. My reasoning to give others some options on whom I'm willing to deal ('for the right price' is in my head). For me it's not just a list of players that I want to get rid of - if that were the case then you can open yourself up to lower offers. I would be willing to deal any of those players but until I know the other manager's context then it's difficult for me to come up with something. If I didn't think I'd want to trade them, then they wouldn't be on the block.

    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Shelf View Post
    Point 2 - Also don't get this, if someone takes the time to read YOUR trading block, and enquire about a player YOU have listed on your block YOU should have some idea for what you're after, and make it somewhat clear, otherwise you're wasting peoples time IMO

    Yeah if someone "cold calls" about one of your players the onus should be on them, but if its a player you listed it seems disingenuous if can't even throw out a rough asking price to kick off negotiations.....just seems like you're hoping someone makes a knee jerk overpayment.

    Anyway, good luck with future trades.
    You didn't catch what I said above - I usually give them some context when they ask to help them formulate an offer. Especially if I don't have a player in mind on their roster. Sure, I may have a rough idea what I'm willing to take in return (I want slightly more grit, I want to keep my salary relatively unchanged etc) but it's entirely reasonable that when that manager asks - without ANY context provided - then it's not easy to give them a specific answer. What if what I'm looking for is not available? Then I would be wasting their time. If you want to enquire about someone on my roster, give some info with it and then we can see from there. Info plus a rough idea of players willing to give back would be a big help and then perhaps can find a fit.

    Also I should add, the trade block may have context as well on top of a list. So, that info should help them formulate an offer.

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    Default Re: If another manager enquired about one of your players...

    Quote Originally Posted by horrorfan View Post
    No offense taken but you shouldn't assume that when I say 'for the right price' I am stating that on the block. My reasoning to give others some options on whom I'm willing to deal ('for the right price' is in my head). For me it's not just a list of players that I want to get rid of - if that were the case then you can open yourself up to lower offers.
    I didn't assume 'for the right price' was spelled out on your block, I realize its just want you are thinking. I simply find it redundant to list players on your block with that mindset because most GM's will move anyone for the right price to begin with.

    When I put players on my block I'm thinking I want to get rid of them, for the right price goes without saying. Someone throws out a Lowball? Just say no.

    Here is example of a real recent trade I made copied and pasted word for word with players/names removed to preserve anonymity.

    Me: Hey there, was just checking out your trade block and I'm somewhat interested in player X. Would any combination of players in my trade block be of interest to you in a deal for X?

    Him: On your block I'd be interested in Y and Z..maybe we can craft something up with them.

    Me: Sure, Would you add another piece to X?

    Him: Yeah for sure. What else would you be interested in?

    Me: I'll have a look at your roster tomorrow morning at the work and see if we can figure something out.

    ---next day---

    Me: I'm trying not to take on too much cap so I need someone cheap to balance out the trade. I just had a peak at your team and I like Player A...

    So we could do

    My: Y and Z

    for

    Your: X & A

    What do you think?

    Him: Yeah I could make that work. Do you wanna post it?

    Why did I show this? Because to me this how trade blocks should ideally work. When this particular manager in the trade above updates his block it means he wants a player gone...same as I do. In fact, in this league, there are 5 or 6 managers who when they update their block...it's "let's get er done" time. Deals get made. There are no lowballs because you normally get competing offers.

    On the other hand, in the same league, there are a handful of managers whose trade blocks I don't even bother looking at anymore because they don't seem to know what they want and are too worried about playing 'poker' with their intentions, or are not even serious about trading.

    So to go back to your original question, I think you want to be in the first group and list players on block you want shipped, worry less about who offers what when and simply let it be know you'll move anyone for the right price.

    My 2 cents...Good luck!

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