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Thread: Acquiring Neal and Malkin Help

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    Default Acquiring Neal and Malkin Help

    I’m trying to secure some beefy keepers. I already have 3 STELLAR keepers in Stamkos, Karlsson, and Rask, but my other 3 are more than a few steps down from my top 3. I was looking at one guy’s team, and he looks like he’d need to upgrade his bottom keepers. I have E.Kane, St Louis, Voracek, JVR, and Kuzy for 2 keeper spots. To upgrade my current keepers (Stamkos, Backstrom, JvR, St Louis, Karlsson, Rask), I was looking to trade for Malkin and Neal.
    Backstrom, e.Kane Voracek for Malkin and Neal.
    The following is his team and bolded would be who I would keep on it (Parise for Letang as the last keeper would work too)
    Martin Hanzal Pho - C
    Mikko Koivu Min - C
    Zach Parise Min - LW 
    Loui Eriksson Bos - LW,RW 
    Evgeni Malkin Pit - C,RW 
    Ryan Johansen Cls - C,RW
    Jason Garrison Van - D
    Tobias Enstrom Wpg - D
    Morgan Rielly Tor - D
    Ryan Suter Min - D 
    James Neal Pit - LW,RW 
    Gustav Nyquist Det - C,RW
    Frans Nielsen NYI - C
    Kris Letang Pit - D 
    Quick - G

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    Default Re: Acquiring Neal and Malkin Help

    So what's in it for the other guy?
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    Default Re: Acquiring Neal and Malkin Help

    yeah i don't get why he wants to trade his 2 best players in this deal

    you talk about his horrible bottom keepers yet i only see Nyquist and i am not sure that Jake or Evander are really huge upgrades on him
     
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    Default Re: Acquiring Neal and Malkin Help

    also if i am him i am keeping either Letang or Sutter not both and Ryan Johansen is being kept

    and yeah i don't see Jake/Evander as and upgrade over Gus/Ryan if i am being honest

    certainly not one where i give up Malkin and Neal

    his bottom keepers don't look any worse than yours to me so i just don't see the appeal for him
     
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    Default Re: Acquiring Neal and Malkin Help

    For arguments sake, let's say Malkin = Stamkos and Neal = Backstrom.

    Backstrom and Neal would thus cancel each other out. Would you trade Stamkos for e.Kane Voracek?
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    Default Re: Acquiring Neal and Malkin Help

    Ok, i know this guy has had some frustration with Malkin being injured, so i was hoping i could steal him so to speak. I'm not a huge fan of players who have ppg status, but somehow only manage to average 65pts a season over the last 5 seasons. Which is Malkin.

    I was seeing Malkin and Backstrom as equals (our league is set up in such a way that hugely benefits Backstrom with assists being close to the same value as goals and pppoints, not ppgoals). But E.Kane and Voracek seem to be far steps away from Neal from the consensus of this thread.

    I personally wouldn't keep Nyquist based on his disappearance act he did in the playoffs, and is limited history, but I can see why people would take that chance on him. With Ryan J. to me this was either his coming out party, or just a random yr. His history doesn't say much but his potential has always been there.

    I guess I saw this as an upgrade for him based on ‘for sure point getters’ vs his 1st yr wonders (I know Ryan isn’t a rookie, but it was his 1st fantasy relevant yr)

    Would adding a 1st /2nd round pick make this a thinkable trade for him? Or would you guys say I’m so far off base?
    Backstrom, Voracek, e.Kane/St Louis and a 1st/2nd for Malkin and Neal?
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    Default Re: Acquiring Neal and Malkin Help

    Quote Originally Posted by Seeds of Grapes View Post
    For arguments sake, let's say Malkin = Stamkos and Neal = Backstrom.

    Backstrom and Neal would thus cancel each other out. Would you trade Stamkos for e.Kane Voracek?
    I would say talent wise and highest ceiling, yes they are similar. Would I say they are equal fantasy wise? No, I rather my lock for 80pts vs a guy who’s missed 85 games over 4 yrs (22, 17, 7, and 39 games missed)

    But i get what you're saying
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    G: Oettinger, Georgiev, Samsonov, Woll


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    Default Re: Acquiring Neal and Malkin Help

    Quote Originally Posted by 2014olympicgold View Post
    I'm not a huge fan of players who have ppg status, but somehow only manage to average 65pts a season over the last 5 seasons. Which is Malkin.
    if you are not a huge fan why are you trading for him

    I personally wouldn't keep Nyquist based on his disappearance act he did in the playoffs, and is limited history, but I can see why people would take that chance on him. With Ryan J. to me this was either his coming out party, or just a random yr. His history doesn't say much but his potential has always been there.
    Kane has years worth of disappearing acts in the playoffs and what you are saying about Ryan could be said about Jake considering this is the first 82 game season he managed to hit anywhere close to the potential he was supposed to have, i mean it isn't like either Evander or Jake have this stellar track record to point to where they are at the top of the league

    I guess I saw this as an upgrade for him based on ‘for sure point getters’ vs his 1st yr wonders (I know Ryan isn’t a rookie, but it was his 1st fantasy relevant yr)
    except you aren't offering for sure anything

    Would adding a 1st /2nd round pick make this a thinkable trade for him? Or would you guys say I’m so far off base?
    Backstrom, Voracek, e.Kane/St Louis and a 1st/2nd for Malkin and Neal?
    why don't you ask him what it would take to get Malkin and then go from there
     
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    Default Re: Acquiring Neal and Malkin Help

    Quote Originally Posted by 2014olympicgold View Post
    Ok, i know this guy has had some frustration with Malkin being injured, so i was hoping i could steal him so to speak. I'm not a huge fan of players who have ppg status, but somehow only manage to average 65pts a season over the last 5 seasons. Which is Malkin.

    I was seeing Malkin and Backstrom as equals (our league is set up in such a way that hugely benefits Backstrom with assists being close to the same value as goals and pppoints, not ppgoals). But E.Kane and Voracek seem to be far steps away from Neal from the consensus of this thread.

    I personally wouldn't keep Nyquist based on his disappearance act he did in the playoffs, and is limited history, but I can see why people would take that chance on him. With Ryan J. to me this was either his coming out party, or just a random yr. His history doesn't say much but his potential has always been there.

    I guess I saw this as an upgrade for him based on ‘for sure point getters’ vs his 1st yr wonders (I know Ryan isn’t a rookie, but it was his 1st fantasy relevant yr)

    Would adding a 1st /2nd round pick make this a thinkable trade for him? Or would you guys say I’m so far off base?
    Backstrom, Voracek, e.Kane/St Louis and a 1st/2nd for Malkin and Neal?
    Personally I don't think you're offering anything that would make him deal those two, all your deals have him giving up the best two players. If you want both Neal and Malkin then if you replaced Backstrom with Stamkos in your deal and maybe dropped the picks you could have a chance.
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    Default Re: Acquiring Neal and Malkin Help

    If I was him looking at what your offering me. I would never give you Malkin let alone Neal knowing you already have Stamkos, Karlsson and Rask without getting one of those in return. You can spin the offer anyway you want him with in terms of talking about a trade, but it's highly doubtful he would part with his best 2 keepers for lesser keepers. It just won't happen the way you are thinking that it could.


    Quote Originally Posted by 2014olympicgold View Post
    I’m trying to secure some beefy keepers. I already have 3 STELLAR keepers in Stamkos, Karlsson, and Rask, but my other 3 are more than a few steps down from my top 3. I was looking at one guy’s team, and he looks like he’d need to upgrade his bottom keepers. I have E.Kane, St Louis, Voracek, JVR, and Kuzy for 2 keeper spots. To upgrade my current keepers (Stamkos, Backstrom, JvR, St Louis, Karlsson, Rask), I was looking to trade for Malkin and Neal.
    Backstrom, e.Kane Voracek for Malkin and Neal.
    The following is his team and bolded would be who I would keep on it (Parise for Letang as the last keeper would work too)
    Martin Hanzal Pho - C
    Mikko Koivu Min - C
    Zach Parise Min - LW 
    Loui Eriksson Bos - LW,RW 
    Evgeni Malkin Pit - C,RW 
    Ryan Johansen Cls - C,RW
    Jason Garrison Van - D
    Tobias Enstrom Wpg - D
    Morgan Rielly Tor - D
    Ryan Suter Min - D 
    James Neal Pit - LW,RW 
    Gustav Nyquist Det - C,RW
    Frans Nielsen NYI - C
    Kris Letang Pit - D 
    Quick - G

    Is this too little? I’m not afraid to throw a draft pick his way

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    Default Re: Acquiring Neal and Malkin Help

    I don't get your reasoning. You want the other guy to give up his two best players without giving up anyone relevant on your side just so he has better fifth and sixth keepers?

    Would you give up Stamkos and Karlsson just to upgrade JVR and St. Louis?

    If I was that owner and you wanted Malkin and Neal, I'd ask for Stamkos and Karlsson. Studs for studs. Anything less wouldn't get it done.

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    Default Re: Acquiring Neal and Malkin Help

    Quote Originally Posted by 2014olympicgold View Post
    I would say talent wise and highest ceiling, yes they are similar. Would I say they are equal fantasy wise? No, I rather my lock for 80pts vs a guy who’s missed 85 games over 4 yrs (22, 17, 7, and 39 games missed)

    But i get what you're saying
    Personally, Stamkos over Malkin for me, as well. However, according to the stats, Malkin is just as good as Stammer, and IMO, worth far more than Voracek and E Kane (meaning that I would never entertain that offer if I owned Malkin):

    2006-2007 Penguins 78 33 52 85
    2007-2008 Penguins 82 47 59 106
    2008-2009 Penguins 82 35 78 113
    2009-2010 Penguins 67 28 49 77
    2010-2011 Penguins 43 15 22 37
    2011-2012 Penguins 75 50 59 109
    2012-2013 Penguins 31 9 24 33
    2013-2014 Penguins 60 23 49 72
    NHL TOTALS 518 240 392 632

    But, if you cn get Malkin for so cheap, then by all means, do it!
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    Default Re: Acquiring Neal and Malkin Help

    Quote Originally Posted by 2014olympicgold View Post
    I would say talent wise and highest ceiling, yes they are similar. Would I say they are equal fantasy wise? No, I rather my lock for 80pts vs a guy who’s missed 85 games over 4 yrs (22, 17, 7, and 39 games missed)

    But i get what you're saying
    so if you would rather have the 80 point lock over the injury guy why are you trading for Malkin
     
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    Default Re: Acquiring Neal and Malkin Help

    I may not be a fan of Malkin’s, but I am a fan of winning, and he would push my team over the hump of my San Jose-esc playoff doom. I’m not treating him as a 100pt getter, but a 70pt getter. A Malkin fan would be treating him as an 85-100pt getter

    Voracek’s last 2 yrs have been fantasy break throughs so to speak. But I guess he’s still listed as a question mark. E. Kane would be treated the same.

    My thoughts may be contradicting; I say I rather have an 80pt lock than malkin. But I’m trading Backstrom who’s a 70pt lock, I’m not trading Stamkos.


    Now I’m thinking if I can swing this trade I need to post it on the “Tuesday fun- best trade you’ve made” thread
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    Default Re: Acquiring Neal and Malkin Help

    Honestly dude just sounds like you are trying to find arguments to make bad trade a marginal one. If the other guy goes for it then all the power to you but it's not a good trade for him and it doesn't help his team at all. I don't know any fantasy owner who even marginally knows what he is doing that would go for this trade. Like I said. You can propose it and see if he goes for it but don't come on here and try and talk us into why it's a good move for him when we know it's not and you know it's not.

    For the record, E. Kane has done nothing but not step up for the last couple years. You treat him like he's more proven than Nyquist or Johanssn and he's simply not. He's more proven that he can't seem to ever find a way to live up to his potential but that's about it. And you can compare Backstrom to Neal, not Malkin. Whatever you treat Malkin as, he's a potential 100 point player. So sorry, you just can't compare him and Backstrom.

    There is no valid argument to have that E. Kane and Voracek are even marginal upgrades over Parise, Nyquist, and Johansen. Voracek maybe, but certainly not Kane. Definitely no chance it's anything of significance to trade away Malkin. 2 for 1 upgrades are a smart way to do things. But be realistic. Voracek & Kane for Neal is maybe something he goes for. I still don't think it's an upgrade for him but it might be. But what you're proposing right now is just silly

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