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Thread: Rick Nash Trade - Looking back

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    Default Rick Nash Trade - Looking back

    So I am curious if people around here still think the Rangers won that trade in hindsight. I tried to search the thread on here when he got traded but it's one of the missing ones for now.

    Lets review the trade:

    To NYR:

    Rick Nash, Steve Delisle, conditional 3rd in 2013 (ended up being Pavel Buchnevich)

    To CBJ:

    Brandon Dubinsky, Artem Anisimov, Tim Erixon, 1st 2013 ( which ended up being Kerby Rychel)


    I remember the outcry at the time. Many on here thought the Blue Jackets got fleeced, and couldnt understand the return. I remember saying I thought it was a good deal for both teams. The players the Blue Jackets got were under-rated and Nash was a bit over-rated. If you were around these parts when this deal went down, do you remember your comments (not word for word obviously) and how you felt about the deal at the time?

    If this trade went down today, how would you feel about it now? Still think the Rangers fleeced the Blue Jackets? Do you think the Blue Jackets won the deal or does it simply look like a good deal for both teams now?
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    Default Re: Rick Nash Trade - Looking back

    i was never a big fan of the trade, i felt too much heart was ripped out of the team by moving Dubinsky and i felt that while 35+ goals per season is great and all it wasn't going to help the Rangers win a Cup

    his 2 goals in 19 playoff games just doesn't impress me all that much if i am being honest

    as much as people killed Dubinsky for his .44 ppg season with his cap hit, Nash's .6 ppg season with his cap hit wasn't any better

    maybe if Nash gets a cup winning goal for the Rangers i will think differently about the trade, but i wasn't thrilled with it at the time and as time goes on i am liking it less and less
     
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    Default Re: Rick Nash Trade - Looking back

    bottom line is, whichever team goes further in the playoff wins the trade.

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    Default Re: Rick Nash Trade - Looking back

    Quote Originally Posted by praba View Post
    bottom line is, whichever team goes further in the playoff wins the trade.
    I'm not so sure I agree with this. The NHL isn't a one year fantasy hockey league. You can't look at it and simply say if the Rangers go further into the playoffs then Columbus then they won the trade. Same can be said if the Rangers get beat out and the Blue Jackets knock off the Pens this year.
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    Default Re: Rick Nash Trade - Looking back

    Quote Originally Posted by Axeman33 View Post
    I'm not so sure I agree with this. The NHL isn't a one year fantasy hockey league. You can't look at it and simply say if the Rangers go further into the playoffs then Columbus then they won the trade. Same can be said if the Rangers get beat out and the Blue Jackets knock off the Pens this year.
    while overly simplistic there is something to the idea that the Rangers haven't gotten better as a team as a result of the trade and Columbus has

    granted there is much more to it than just the addition of Dubinsky and Anisimov and the subtraction of Nash for Columbus, but the blue collar mentality that was part of the Rangers for a couple of seasons seems to have found a home in Columbus, with Dubinsky being the poster boy for that, while NY to a certain degree continues to struggle with the blue collar vs retirement home identity that has plagued it for well over a decade now

    i am sure that Columbus fans are happier to see Johansen learn about heart from a guy like Dubinsky than they would from Nash
     
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    Default Re: Rick Nash Trade - Looking back

    columbus plays like i want the rangers to play. i reeally miss dubinsky in ny. i didnt like the trade and i dont like the cally trade either. maybe im just too attached to ny players. nash obviously has the tallent but i like what dubinsky brought to the team. also anisimov has some skill and size that are always an asset.
    really though columbus has improved a lot over the last couple of years and ny has not imo.
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    Default Re: Rick Nash Trade - Looking back

    Quote Originally Posted by Axeman33 View Post
    I'm not so sure I agree with this. The NHL isn't a one year fantasy hockey league. You can't look at it and simply say if the Rangers go further into the playoffs then Columbus then they won the trade. Same can be said if the Rangers get beat out and the Blue Jackets knock off the Pens this year.
    why not? if a trade makes you have the weaker player but the better team, every gm would make that trade 100% of the time.

    it seems more like fantasy hockey to get the best player long term. NHL teams want to win. the trade that helps you win is the trade you want to make.

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    Default Re: Rick Nash Trade - Looking back

    I'd rather have Dubinsky than Nash so I'd say it was a win for the Jackets, but also a win for the Rangers as they needed more scoring (but as kevin said, not as much now since they lost Callahan as well - that's both heart and soul guys gone in two years).

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    Default Re: Rick Nash Trade - Looking back

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Ev View Post
    I'd rather have Dubinsky than Nash so I'd say it was a win for the Jackets, but also a win for the Rangers as they needed more scoring (but as kevin said, not as much now since they lost Callahan as well - that's both heart and soul guys gone in two years).
    yes and no to the more scoring

    they went from 11th prior to Nash to 15th to 18th this past season, so the addition of Nash did not lead to more scoring for the team

    you don't just add a player's goals and the team's goals go up by that amount, many times those goals come at the expense of other players on the team and if you are lucky you might get a slight net gain but in the case of the Rangers they didn't

    that 11-12 team also finished 1st in the conference and 2nd in the league and neither of those has been close to replicated since the addition of Nash

    a Cup would go a long way towards salvaging things for the trade that is for sure but as of right now the team has not been a better one either in the standings or in terms of goal scoring since the addition of Nash and the subtraction of Dubinsky and Anisimov
     
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    Default Re: Rick Nash Trade - Looking back

    I agree with you that at the time the general consensus was that Columbus got taken to the cleaners on this one and that is proving not to be the case. You also gotta remember that real world GMs are looking at a lot more factors in building their teams than we do as fantasy GMs. I think ultimately it was a good trade for both sides in terms of what they needed. Ultimately I think Nash is the best player in the deal...(big, strong power forwards with soft hands are not easy to come by in the NHL) but getting Dubinsky+Anisimov was not only fair, but I feel it left the Jackets in a better position than they were with Nash.

    Finally, we often forget that these players all have personalities and motivations. The 'big fish in a little pond' phenomena often motivates players to step up and produce where previously they may have been forced into more of a secondary/supporting role. I think that's what we've seen from both these players. Dubinsky is now THE guy in Columbus, he's the leader and he has the personality to step into that role and thrive in it where in NY I feel he was always a little overshadowed. Nash on the other hand has gone the opposite way, he joined a team where he doesn't have to be 'THE guy', because of the others they have on the roster (Richards, Callahan (not any more), Lundqvist, McDonough...plus all the great youth coming up now with Stepan, Kreider, Zucarello, Hagelin, etc).

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    Default Re: Rick Nash Trade - Looking back

    At the time the word was that Jackets got fleeced, gave up best player and just got a couple pluggers. The only way Rangers look like winners is if they get to the cup final in the next 3 years. Trade probably works out for both teams in the long run looking at what they want to do. Jackets are going to reap the benefits of this trade for years especially if Rychel pans out.
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    Default Re: Rick Nash Trade - Looking back

    Well - Dubinsky sure looks good with CBJ.
    And his perceived value to the team might not possibly be higher than after a really good season and in a playoff match tied up 2-2.

    Rick Nash had a disappointing season, sure - but the entire NYR team came out of the gates slow.
    The scoring was down. I believe they started on a West Coast trip.
    Lundqvist sputtered to start the season.

    To look at Nash on the NYR stat-sheet... he's 6th in scoring, behind Zucc & Brassard and even McDonagh.
    Those stats sure don't look good.

    Eff that though.
    NYR needed scoring... playoff scoring. They needed a dynamic player.
    Are they a better regular season with Nash (as opposed to Dubinsky), perhaps not?
    But I do believe they are a better playoff-calibre team with Nash (than Dubinsky & co).

    In 65pts, Nash had a disappointing 7 PPP this year.
    That's something I don't mind... a low PPP total from a player.
    Because I can expect that to bounce back in future years.
    Nash is a 20 PPP guy.

    And Nash was still +10, which is right there with the best forwards on this team.
    Do we really think Zucc is going to score 17 PPP again next year with Nash only getting 7 PPP?

    Nash averaged just over 17min/game in the regular season.
    Nash is averaging just over 19min/game in the post-season. (2nd highest among NYR forwards)

    Perhaps NYR was resting him.
    Perhaps AV was smart enough to give his 2nd/3rd liners some bigger minutes to get them offensively geared up.

    I think CBJ, as a whole, looks very good.
    And obviously Dubinsky is a key cog in a team that we've typically been used to laughing at... especially when Nash was there.

    But, IMO... the trade is still a big win for NYR... and, at the same time, it's still a good win for CBJ too. The ol' win-win trade. (Not sure we need to dote on "who won" most.)
    Regular season, I don't care. I still believe Nash is a dynamic player, especially for a playoff run.
    They got their dynamic forward - and the team looks good, really good right now.
    If NYR & CBJ advance out of their series', I'd be really surprised to see somebody lay $1000 even-money on CBJ.


    Here is the key way to think about it... IMO:
    Did the Rangers have a better chance at winning a cup with Dubinsky/Anisimov?
    or
    Do the Rangers have a better chance at winning a cup with Nash?

    (Forget the stats for a bit... honestly, truly... which "team" do you see as being most Stanley-Cup calibre?)

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    Default Re: Rick Nash Trade - Looking back

    Quote Originally Posted by Pengwin7 View Post
    But, IMO... the trade is still a big win for NYR. Regular season, I don't care. I still believe Nash is a dynamic player, especially for a playoff run.
    They got their dynamic forward - and the team looks good, really good right now.
    Nash has not been a dynamic player since the concussion and he has never been a playoff player

    he has 1 goal and 8 assists in 15 playoff games as a Ranger while Dubinsky has 1 goal and 5 assists in 4 playoff games for Columbus

    Dubinsky already beat what Nash took 12 games to do last years playoffs in only 4 games in this years playoffs and that is before you get into the hitting and the two way play etc

    Nash really doesn't bring anything more to the table than Gaborik did other than a larger more expensive contract imo
     
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    Default Re: Rick Nash Trade - Looking back

    Quote Originally Posted by lucifer316 View Post
    Nash has not been a dynamic player since the concussion and he has never been a playoff player

    he has 1 goal and 8 assists in 15 playoff games as a Ranger while Dubinsky has 1 goal and 5 assists in 4 playoff games for Columbus

    Dubinsky already beat what Nash took 12 games to do last years playoffs in only 4 games in this years playoffs and that is before you get into the hitting and the two way play etc

    Nash really doesn't bring anything more to the table than Gaborik did other than a larger more expensive contract imo

    Oh, I see those stats too.
    But you don't like what you are seeing with Rick Nash right now?

    I'm a Flyers fan.
    I want him to go down... he looks good to me.

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    Default Re: Rick Nash Trade - Looking back

    win-win trade.

    i originally thought columbus got fleeced since dubinsky/anisimov were basically above average role players. that is still technically the case but because of the trade columbus got a new identity (duby's) of being a hard-working team instead of the nash show. this combined with bobrovsky's ascension made columbus a better team.

    nash is still a good player but maybe not as good as everyone thought he was going to be. his cap hit is also quite high for anyone not producing elite levels of offense. i would say the trade is even-ish now since duby/anisimov would not have produced like this as they have bigger roles in columbus than they did in new york while nash had a bad offensive year (weird year for most of the rangers imo) but is still young enough to turn it around the rest of the way.
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