Is Garth Snow secretly a genius?

[fungchen3]

He's a genius in a way... he's been able to keep his job while being horrendous at it.

[JagrBomb]

even if he still had the pick everyone would be yelling idiot as i said it is going on with the oilers

who's yelling idiot? they lost TAVARES, no shit they would finish very low. even with tavares they weren't going to make the playoffs this year. the idiot calls you hear are because of the vanek trade, otherwise i think snow has done a decent job in the grand scheme of things. but that's the issue...not many people will remember the good things he's done, the vanek trade will be a black mark on his resume. similar to burke's kessel trade, look how much shit he got for it and he was able to keep kessel. this is 10x worse imo, a top 5/potential mcdavid pick for a rental that they couldn't even use in the playoffs.

[islefan31]

I was excited about this thread until I saw you open with this. Ah well.

LOL, sorry to disappoint you.

[islefan31]

He's a genius in a way... he's been able to keep his job while being horrendous at it.

Ha..there you go, I was right.

[lucifer316]

who's yelling idiot? they lost TAVARES, no shit they would finish very low. even with tavares they weren't going to make the playoffs this year. the idiot calls you hear are because of the vanek trade, otherwise i think snow has done a decent job in the grand scheme of things. but that's the issue...not many people will remember the good things he's done, the vanek trade will be a black mark on his resume. similar to burke's kessel trade, look how much shit he got for it and he was able to keep kessel. this is 10x worse imo, a top 5/potential mcdavid pick for a rental that they couldn't even use in the playoffs.

i am talking about the fact that the oilers constantly get killed on these boards for continuing to do nothing but lose year after year and stock pile high end picks who do nothing to change the fortunes of the franchise

if Snow doesn't make a move people would be criticizing him for not trying to make the team better the same way they do the oilers

yeah you know what it didn't work out and that is too bad but at least he did more than just sit there and stare at the team and watch it continue to suck year after year while not doing a damn thing to change that other than pray that the top 5 pick this year is the one that changes everything for the team

[islefan31]

i am talking about the fact that the oilers constantly get killed on these boards for continuing to do nothing but lose year after year and stock pile high end picks who do nothing to change the fortunes of the franchise

if Snow doesn't make a move people would be criticizing him for not trying to make the team better the same way they do the oilers

yeah you know what it didn't work out and that is too bad but at least he did more than just sit there and stare at the team and watch it continue to suck year after year while not doing a damn thing to change that other than pray that the top 5 pick this year is the one that changes everything for the team

I agree, and at the time I didn't hate the trade, depsite the fact I thought it was a huge over-payment. It's seems like a life time ago, but that line was on fire before the break and it looked like it could pay off even for just the season. At some point in a rebuild you have to say enough prospects lets get some proven talent. At the time no one could forsee a top 5 pick. I just wish he had used that mentality before the season to address his real need for a goalie and possibly a defenseman.

[MXHockey]

oh and if Tavares doesn't get hurt there is no guarantee that pick is as high as it is

what is snow supposed to make no moves assuming his players will get hurt and the season will be a bust on them

they were fighting for a wild card spot when Tavares went down

The premise of the above argument does make some sense if you look at it from the timing of the trade for Vanek. To Snow's credit he made the trade for Vanek early in the season, late October. They were only 11 games into the season and were sitting 3rd in the Metro Division. The previous year the team made the playoffs and pushed the Pens to the brink in round one. If Snow truly believed Vanek would help them return to the playoffs and there was also a chance they could re-sign him then why not take a chance. The mentality in October was build on their momentum from 2012-2013.

Clearly Snow overpaid and the trade didn't work out, but it's not that bad. The trade was Moulson, a conditional 1st (2014 or 2015) and a 2nd. When they moved Vanek to the Habs at the deadline, they recouped a 2nd. In the end it was Moulson/1st for Vanek. Not great, but not exactly terrible either. Moulson can barely hold a candle to Vanek. The Isles bad season after the fact makes it seem more terrible.

The Isles have a tough decision - I think they keep their pick this year. You can't pass on a top five pick on the chance that next season you may suck worse and get a top two pick.


Cheers.

[metaldude26]

If he's a genius, it's in the rainman sense.

[mister_mcgoo]

he's definitely 'special' I'll give him that

[mister_mcgoo]

This whole line of argument from Dobber and others that "he had to take a chance on Vanek re-signing" is nonsense IMO.

Yes it's a challenge to get players to want to play there, they have similar issues in Winnipeg and Edmonton because of the weather and how remote they are. But how does making a bad situation worse make any sense in this context? You shouldn't be giving away first rounders unless you're sure you'll get something in return. How difficult is it to do a little homework up front instead of just rolling the dice and hoping for the best? That was a poor decision all around. It's also an especially poor decision on Snow's part when you consider that the Isles will be moving to Brooklyn next year which will do wonders for the quality of talent that they can attract. All he had to do was sit tight, use his pick wisely and build for the future. Terrible decision making.

[Magicstew]

He's a genius in a way... he's been able to keep his job while being horrendous at it.

Snow is the Alan Harper of GM's, and Wang is Walden Schmidt

[27Blue]

I didn't hate the Vanek trade at the time... It was one of the rare times that I have seen Snow actually doing something to make the Isles a better team. I didn't think the price he paid was too much, either. It wasn't a lottery pick when he made the deal and he was smart enough to somewhat protect himself with the ability to defer it until next year in case the wheels fell off the team - which they did. The Isles have plenty of young players/prospects - enough to make most teams drool... That pick was expendable for the right piece and I think it was a smart idea to move it. Snow's mistake was simply targeting the wrong asset.

Tavares is an elite player and he doesn't need more points, or a high-end, one-way winger to pad his stats to prove anything. Vanek did not make the Isles a better team. The team NEEDED a goalie and help on the blueline. Nabokov is aging and has lost a step and the back-up situation was a nightmare. Andy Macdonald was playing some of the top minutes in the NHL, and failing. Yet, the team was scoring at a torrid pace. Why the hell would you move one of your most valuable (and moveable) assets for a reduntant piece? Snow either failed to recognize his team's weaknesses or he failed to act on them. The trade was a bad move because Vanek was the wrong guy coming back, not because Snow shouldn't have gambled with the pick.

I also think the Isles should retain their pick this year instead of giving it to Buffalo... and I think they should trade it at the draft. Package it or do what it takes to land a top-4 d-man. Overpay if you have to (they have the cap space, so why not use it on a real player instead of spending it on BS deals like they did with Thomas and Connelly)... and sign a goalie... A real goalie. Pretty simple - and things that real GM's do every year. The Isles are coming, in spite of their management. They need a few key pieces and some time.

[HockeyProphet]

Maybe Vanek was a way to get people to fill the seats and buying jerseys, which in turn looks good when your trying to sell a team: at least on the dollar sheet at the end of the day.

[ericdaoust]

Maybe Vanek was a way to get people to fill the seats and buying jerseys, which in turn looks good when your trying to sell a team: at least on the dollar sheet at the end of the day.

When Snow was on NHL radio (XM) this was pretty much his positive spin on the Vanek ordeal. He said it gave fans a few months of one of the highest scoring lines in hockey.

[Luffy D Monkey]

Is Garth Snow secretly a ******?