Stamkos or Tavares, pts only?

[MJFP]

Dobber when you say JT>SS, your only basing it on assist and goals being worth the same amount of points, ya?

[fungchen3]

Both great players in the same ballpark but I'd take Stamkos. I'm sick of hearing the "Stamkos won't do squat without St. Louis" gibberish. The kid returned from months off with a broken leg and is still performing at a high pace while the almighty St. Louis got dealt to the Apple and has been outperformed by Benoit Pouliot for crying out loud. Stamkos will be 90-100 points worth of fine and when he clicks with Jonathan Drouin, watch out. This is no knock on Tavares, however, as this is close. The way I see it:

Stamkos = a steady dose of 94-100 points per with 108 potential once he starts clicking with Drouin.

Tavares = a reliable 86-95 points a season with 103 potential in the perfect year if/when the Isles could lure some quality talent.

As for the 120 stuff for Tavares, Dobber is a bit too generous with his guys once again IMO. A healthy Sid was only able to bag 102 this year in 78 GP - there's no way JT touches 120... not gonna happen folks. Those insane 150 point "upside" numbers for players like Malkin, etc. only look good in the Guide but they will never happen. My realistic expectations for the heavies:

(IF healthy)

Crosby = 100-128
Malkin = 94-115
Stamkos = 94-108
Tavares = 86-103
Ovechkin = 78-100

... followed by the Kanes, Girouxs, Getzlafs, Backstroms, Perrys, Neals, Halls, etc.

[Bomm Bastic]

Fungchen and I are on the same page with this issue. If I may expand....I also think if a GM trades Stammer for Johnny-T straight-up as Dobber alluded to, said GM would be doing a disservice to his team by not realizing current full market value.

[junyab]

If Tavares played with St. Louis, he'd have two 100-point seasons by now, not some measly 90+ that Stamkos managed.

That is such a very odd statement. So Tavares is SO much better that he'd score 3-4 more points playing with MSL?!?! And 3-4 pts below 100-pts is now considered "measly". Eek!

[havanablast21]

Wow...this is perhaps the best thread to see Dobber in his passion! I certainly didn't think as high of J.T. until I read this thread. As a J.T. owner who was able to deal with his injury and still land 2nd place in my league...I'm loving the idea of adding a J.T. to my Getz/Perry/Hall/Kunitz/Perry/JVR/Karlsson/OEL/Burn/Bobrovsky and Crawford and 2 of Erhoff, Gaborik, Kunitz, Rielly, Gibson...the later of which is a 2nd place team. Add in J.T....and I love my future.

[havanablast21]

in the end...aren't we talking about 2 of the top 5 players right now in the league? Does either truly tip the ship substantially enough to cost a GM his job?

[jcairns]

in the end...aren't we talking about 2 of the top 5 players right now in the league? Does either truly tip the ship substantially enough to cost a GM his job?

Yes, we are, and in a points-only league, unlikely. Both have the skill to outperform the other in any given year; just given Stamkos' situation, I think *most* tend to prefer him.

And no... Tavares doesn't have 120pt upside. :P No one outside of Crosby does, and even then it doesn't look like he will get there in this era of the NHL.

[HockeyProphet]

This is a good debate. I own both in my keeper, pts only league. I like stammer cause he offers consistency. And I like JT because he is consistent but I'm really holding out on his high end potential. He seems to get better every year.

Can't go wrong with either. Maybe long-term an edge to JT because of his elite playmaking skills. But right now, Stammer.

[havanablast21]

As a J.T. owner I'M generally loving this thread. But I have to be honest...if the broken shin never happened...and the MSL trade never happened...I personally doubt I'm reading this thread thinking I have the better fantasy player long term in J.T.

[jcairns]

As a J.T. owner I'M generally loving this thread. But I have to be honest...if the broken shin never happened...and the MSL trade never happened...I personally doubt I'm reading this thread thinking I have the better fantasy player long term in J.T.

I love both players, and don't think in a points only you can necessarily "go wrong". I do think though that in a points-only league, I will always prefer Stamkos unless Tavares somehow starts producing a big point lead (consistently at least 5 points more than Stamkos in a season) simply because Stamkos can post 50-60 goals, and Tavares can't. A guy that can get 50-60 goals is much more valuable than someone that can get a similar point total, but with 2/3 of it coming in assists.

[havanablast21]

THAT'S WHAT I DID IN MY ROTO... I got him really cheap too!

I traded:

Bozak + Lupul + Semin

for

Tavares + Hanzal

Can you say highway robbery?

Meh...not bad...but me grabbing J.T. For Dubinsky straight 3 years ago was the true definition of highway robbery!

[havanablast21]

I love both players, and don't think in a points only you can necessarily "go wrong". I do think though that in a points-only league, I will always prefer Stamkos unless Tavares somehow starts producing a big point lead (consistently at least 5 points more than Stamkos in a season) simply because Stamkos can post 50-60 goals, and Tavares can't. A guy that can get 50-60 goals is much more valuable than someone that can get a similar point total, but with 2/3 of it coming in assists.

I get what your saying...but the glaring flaw is the comparison to Ovie and his 50 + goals yet falls outside top 10 fantasy players'. goals aren't the end all.

[JagrBomb]

i think stamkos is a lock for 90-100, while tavares will get you anywhere from 85-105. not much difference between the two, stamkos is the safer pick, but tavares could get you slightly better production. all depends on what you prefer, my vote goes to tavares. i'd still like to see stamkos go through a full season without marty just to prove he can do it on his own.

[jcairns]

I get what your saying...but the glaring flaw is the comparison to Ovie and his 50 + goals yet falls outside top 10 fantasy players'. goals aren't the end all.

Of course goals aren't the end all. What I said was there would have to be a point spread between the two for me to consider Tavares. Even if Tavares takes a step forward next year and matches Stamkos in points (let's say 95 points each), I would still prefer Stamkos mainly because goals are harder to come by. So there would have to be a point gap to make my preference jump to Tavares (probably at least a 5 point difference).

I do realize now though that if we are talking points only league, they are treated the same. Unfortunately I am brain-washed to always think in terms of H2H leagues where you have a "Goals" category and an "assists" category. So in in a standard points only, then yes you are correct goals do not matter at all.

[havanablast21]

Of course goals aren't the end all. What I said was there would have to be a point spread between the two for me to consider Tavares. Even if Tavares takes a step forward next year and matches Stamkos in points (let's say 95 points each), I would still prefer Stamkos mainly because goals are harder to come by. So there would have to be a point gap to make my preference jump to Tavares (probably at least a 5 point difference).

I do realize now though that if we are talking points only league, they are treated the same. Unfortunately I am brain-washed to always think in terms of H2H leagues where you have a "Goals" category and an "assists" category. So in in a standard points only, then yes you are correct goals do not matter at all.

Gotcha JCairns!