Stamkos or Tavares, pts only?

[pmorrow]

No. When did I recommend Tavares and Hall for Malkin? Not questioning that I did, but if it was a year ago...then a year has passed and you lose that year of advantage in such a deal. Today I wouldn't do it, knowing what I know now (JT well on way to 90+ season before injury, Malkin injured yet again, Hall staying pretty healthy).

What next? I recommended trading Gretzky for Lidstrom?

Here you go. Februrary 2014.

http://forums.dobbersports.com/showt...erm-IMP-*-REP*

[Reuben]

If Tavares played with St. Louis, he'd have two 100-point seasons by now, not some measly 90+ that Stamkos managed. That's what I whole-heartedly believe. And in a case like this - give me the upside. Because the downside is pretty freakin' good - I don't mind one bit if I get Tavares for Stamkos and then Tavares never beats Stamkos...because the downside wouldn't cripple me. But the upside - now that's a spicy meatball!!

Haha! I've never been good with spicy foods, Dobber.

I hear you on the upside/downside argument, but my concern would be if the Islanders ever put the pieces around JT to ensure that upside happens.

Stamkos likely has that in TBay. Drouin, Palat, decent secondary guy in Filpulla, overall a good young team, very good DMan in Hedman.

I'm not as hard on the Islanders as many are, but this year has really made me wonder. I think Okposo is the real deal, alongside Tavares. But not sure yet about Strome, the D-core, etc.

Like I said - I have both in my pool, so I don't need to make the tough choice. But if I had to make the decision, the team situations would definitely play a factor.

[Shiva Blaster]

Tavares without hesitation.

[mounD]

I'd go stamkos. I love betting on fictional upside as much as the next guy, but c'mon ... this shouldn't be close.

[Rover]

Sometimes I wonder about dobber's opinions like when he thought dubynk would do well in Nashville. I had to roll my eyeballs hard at that one.

Now again with this one. It's stamkos for me but it's close cause I think stamkos is better but I'm not going to say not even close like dobber. Also upside of 120 points? Does dobber realize the scoring stats of the nhl? Crosby has only scored 120 once and that was his career best and Tavares is no Crosby. This year Crosby will be the only player to break 100 points. It's not easy getting 100 points anymore let alone 120. Maybe, if the nhl does something to increase scoring Tavares would have a chance but as is no way Tavares ever gets 120.

[Bomm Bastic]

Tavares spanked Stamkos in junior (not close) despite being younger. And he's caught up with Stamkos in the NHL despite playing with Jimmy Lunchpail and Tommy Hardhat. I wouldn't trade Tavares for Stamkos and a 1st. But I would gladly trade Stamkos for Tavares straight up.

What happened to our old adage proven over potential? Or are we just throwing basic concepts out the window now? Jeebus.

Raw talent alone does not make one a 100pt player....you know this.

[Dobber]

What happened to our old adage proven over potential? Or are we just throwing basic concepts out the window now? Jeebus.

Raw talent alone does not make one a 100pt player....you know this.

Proven over potential is fine, if potential's proven has shown 0 points and proven's proven gave us 90 points. Then of course you go proven. But in this case, Tavares' proven 81 points is what you're slotting under 'potential' and Stamkos' 97 points is what you're calling 'proven'. So, even though Tavares was on pace for about 92 points this year and his numbers have improved each and every season, you are willing to forego the potential here, in favor of a "proven" difference of 16 points? Suit yourself.

[Top_Shelf]

I'd go stamkos. I love betting on fictional upside as much as the next guy, but c'mon ... this shouldn't be close.

Yeah, I agree I don't see how you take Tavares over Stammer. It's somewhat close I suppose but heck, I started a thread a few months ago comparing Kane and JT and most people pointed out that JT had not even surpassed Kane yet, never mind Stamkos.

If Tavares puts up 90+ next season to go with his 90 point pace this season them it gets a lot closer IMO, but as of right now you gotta take Stamkos.

[MillerTime89]

Both players put up godly numbers, but I love Tavares; he deserves more credit when compared to the Big 4 (Crosby, Ovechkin, Stammer, Malkin). I think it's time to make it the Big 5 w/ Tavares.

[Dobber]

Both players put up godly numbers, but I love Tavares; he deserves more credit when compared to the Big 4 (Crosby, Ovechkin, Stammer, Malkin). I think it's time to make it the Big 5 w/ Tavares.

A Big 4 with Tavares I agree. No Big 5. Stamkos doesn't belong there. That's like saying Yzerman made it a Big 3 with Lemieux and Gretzky. Different class of player - Sid, Gino, Ovy and maybe JT. Stamkos is in the next class, like Yzerman, Hull, Kurri back in the day. Not insulting Stamkos.

[Dobber]

Yeah, I agree I don't see how you take Tavares over Stammer. It's somewhat close I suppose but heck, I started a thread a few months ago comparing Kane and JT and most people pointed out that JT had not even surpassed Kane yet, never mind Stamkos.

If Tavares puts up 90+ next season to go with his 90 point pace this season them it gets a lot closer IMO, but as of right now you gotta take Stamkos.

If you want to trade Tavares for Kane, or Tavares for Stamkos, go for it. I wouldn't do that in a million years. Especially Kane, are you kidding me? Tavares can do it playing with nobodies. Tavares is a year younger. Tavares, against tougher competition (because he was a year younger) with weaker teammates in junior, hammered Stamkos in production. I've always preferred Tavares. If JT played with MSL he would have two 100+ seasons by now.

[MillerTime89]

I see Dobber's argument and I believe it is justified.

I know in one of my pools, Tavares is severely undervalued. Now whether that be due to his injury or being stuck on the Island, he still isn't getting enough credit for the numbers he does put up. It'd be interesting to see some numbers over the past 4 years between Tavares and Stamkos. The important thing here is to value these guys from a fantasy perspective only and not a real life perspective. Which guy is better to own in fantasy?

[Pengwin7]

Points Only: Tavares > Stamkos... by a little.
Going forward, I'd call Tavares a 95pt player, Stamkos a 90pt player (no MSL).

Multi-Cat: Stamkos.



In modern day fantasy hockey, if you collected info on pools... I'd bet only 1 out of every 5 is "points-only".
That's typical reason why any "Tavares over Stamkos" talk is quickly taken with a big O-M-G.
But history has shown that an ELITE PLAYMAKER (Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby etc.) traditionally is more dependable for a long-haul than an ELITE SNIPER (Bossy, Hull, Ovechkin etc.) ... in... POINTS-ONLY.

[jeffro2111]

Here you go. Februrary 2014.

http://forums.dobbersports.com/showt...erm-IMP-*-REP*

Dobber is going to have a tough time justifying that pmorrow. Bravo, well researched. I also own Stamkos and Tavares in my PTS only keeper and I wouldnt trade either one for Malkin. I dont need the headache of the daily Malikn injury watch. The guy is a time bomb before one of the many foot/ knee/ shoulder/ concussion issues sideline him more frequently and longer than they currently do. Seems like a Forsberg replica to me. Unless you have unlimited daily transactions, no thank you.

[jcairns]

Dobber is going to have a tough time justifying that pmorrow. Bravo, well researched. I also own Stamkos and Tavares in my PTS only keeper and I wouldnt trade either one for Malkin. I dont need the headache of the daily Malikn injury watch. The guy is a time bomb before one of the many foot/ knee/ shoulder/ concussion issues sideline him more frequently and longer than they currently do. Seems like a Forsberg replica to me. Unless you have unlimited daily transactions, no thank you.

But Malkin *could* get 120+ pts if he would stay healthy and had a career year and everything worked out perfectly!