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Thread: Who is MORE valuable? Crosby or Rask.

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    Default Who is MORE valuable? Crosby or Rask.

    I ran Fantasy Hockey Guru in my 12-team H2H league with 12 categories including 8 skater cats and 4 goalie cats (see details in sig).

    Crosby FHG Value 139
    Rask FHG Value 157

    So this begs the question, who is more valuable?Thoughts?
    Yr 3 of 5 Yr - KEEP 4, 12 Manager, H2H - Category

    16 man roster
    Daily ice: 2 C, 2 LW, 2 RW, 3 D, 2 G

    Player Cats: G, A, PPG, PPA, SHP, GWG, +/-, PIM
    Goalie Cats: W, GAA, Sv%, SO (3 min starts/wk)

    My Team (KEEPERS IN CAPS):
    G: RASK, Luongo
    D: Weber, Chara, Kronwall
    TOEWS C
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    Brassard C
    Datsyuk C,LW
    COUTURE C,LW
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    Vertseeg LW,RW (IR)
    Roussel LW
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    Default Re: Who is MORE valuable? Crosby or Rask.

    I'd still argue Crosby because goalies are inherently less valuable than forwards, given the fluctuation of ratio-stats from week to week. There's also the "relative value" argument, in which Rask is one of the top-3 goalies to own in a keeper. The problem, relatively speaking, is that Crosby is the #1 F to own. Relatively speaking, Crosby is more valuable. While his "raw value" may be less in your format, his relative value far exceeds Rask due to league structure and how positions factor into scoring.
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    Default Re: Who is MORE valuable? Crosby or Rask.

    There are a couple factors at work here in my opinion.

    1) Skaters tend to be more consistent than goaltenders year in and year out, so a point to Crosby.
    2) You're league only requries 2C with 5 bench spots, and C is one of the deepest positions in fantasy hockey, which makes C less valuable. Conversely, there are 2G spots with 12 teams, so that's 24 starters, and many teams likely roster a third goalie so the starters likely run out pretty quickly. Point to Rask.
    3) 8 skater categories vs 4 goalie categories. This one you might argue either way, 9 players contributing to 8 cats vs 2 players contributing to 4 cats. Maybe slight point to Rask, some might argue a slight point to Crosby.

    In a deeper league with more skater categories, I would rather have Crosby for the consistency factor, as it is more likely to find a goalie every year that is going to outplay Rask then it is to find a player that will outplay Crosby. But in your case, the league is so shallow skater wise and deeper in goaltending, Rask appears to be the more valuable asset.

    My vote goes to Rask, but only slightly.

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    Default Re: Who is MORE valuable? Crosby or Rask.

    Unless it is a goalie only pool... Crosby.

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    Default Re: Who is MORE valuable? Crosby or Rask.

    Crosby by a mile for me. Rask looks like money now, but goalies are inherently a crap-shoot.......you will never have to worry about a super stud forward like Sid's production fro year to year, or week to week, only his health. You can always find great diamond in the rough goalies to get the job done, but there's only one Crosby.
    10 team, head-to-head, multi-cat, keep-12 keeper league. CATS: G,A,+/-,PPP,PIM,SOG,HITS BS,SHP, W,SV,SV%,GAA,SO Daily rosters of 6F, 4D, 2 Flex, 2G

    F: Crosby, Hall, Pacioretty, Hartnell, Neal, Nugent-Hopkins, Callahan, Dubinsky, Hossa, Huberdeau, Abdelkader, Bjugstad (IR)
    D: Karlsson, Hedman, Muzzin, Savard, Streit (IR)
    G: Lundqvist, Quick, Condon

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    Default Re: Who is MORE valuable? Crosby or Rask.

    Crosby

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    Default Re: Who is MORE valuable? Crosby or Rask.

    I think it depends on the league and what scoring categories are used and how many. 8/10 times I would go with Crosby, as stated above goalies and their teams can run hot and cold, while stud forwards will always get their points.
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    Default Re: Who is MORE valuable? Crosby or Rask.

    Yes the scoring cats are the determining factor, the answer is still Crosby unless you are in a league which features goaltending cats well above and beyond the norm. Not likely, and not the case here.
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    Default Re: Who is MORE valuable? Crosby or Rask.

    A lot of it has to do with how much better they are than others at their position.

    For example, Rask might be 157, but if Bishop is 155, and Niemi 153, and Price is 151 (note I'm just making these numbers up), then it's not like Rask is running away with anything. But if Crosby is 139, and Malkin is the next closest at 110, then Crosby is a much better option.

    Also, since you have eight forward categories and four goalie cats, then Rask can only help you win four of them, and Crosby can him you win eight of them. Big difference.

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    Default Re: Who is MORE valuable? Crosby or Rask.

    Similar to everyone else... it would have to be pretty ridiculous categories to have a league where Rask is more valuable.

    Goalies are just not that reliable. Look at lundqvist even, the model of goalie consistency. A decade of elite stats, and he still has an "bad" season this year that puts him in the middle of the pack for goalies. Crosby's "bad" seasons will still be elite seasons. Goalies work small margins, players not so much.

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    Default Re: Who is MORE valuable? Crosby or Rask.

    Keeper, Crosby.

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    Default Re: Who is MORE valuable? Crosby or Rask.

    I would say Crosby for the reliability factor discussed above. Goaltending is the one position where if an elite player has an off game or week (or year which happens a lot more frequently for goaltenders that elite forwards) it can completely screw you over both during the regualar season and in the playoffs much more than if an elite forward or D-man does not have a great week.
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    Default Re: Who is MORE valuable? Crosby or Rask.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oakville Squires View Post
    I would say Crosby for the reliability factor discussed above. Goaltending is the one position where if an elite player has an off game or week (or year which happens a lot more frequently for goaltenders that elite forwards) it can completely screw you over both during the regualar season and in the playoffs much more than if an elite forward or D-man does not have a great week.
    This is one of the things I am thinking about. If it is so much more important that a goalie does not have an off week than a stud forward, then wouldn't you want the best goalie on your team - i.e. the goalies that are least likely to screw you over in all the goalie categories with a bad game - as having Crosby not post any PP pts for example doesn't single-handedly cause you to lose those categories.
    Yr 3 of 5 Yr - KEEP 4, 12 Manager, H2H - Category

    16 man roster
    Daily ice: 2 C, 2 LW, 2 RW, 3 D, 2 G

    Player Cats: G, A, PPG, PPA, SHP, GWG, +/-, PIM
    Goalie Cats: W, GAA, Sv%, SO (3 min starts/wk)

    My Team (KEEPERS IN CAPS):
    G: RASK, Luongo
    D: Weber, Chara, Kronwall
    TOEWS C
    GETZLAF C
    Brassard C
    Datsyuk C,LW
    COUTURE C,LW
    Cammalleri C,LW
    Backes C,RW
    Franzen LW,RW (IR)
    Vertseeg LW,RW (IR)
    Roussel LW
    Okposo RW
    Iginla RW

    Traded Away: 5th Round 2015
    Traded For: 7th Round 2015

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    Default Re: Who is MORE valuable? Crosby or Rask.

    Quote Originally Posted by newfcollins View Post
    A lot of it has to do with how much better they are than others at their position.

    For example, Rask might be 157, but if Bishop is 155, and Niemi 153, and Price is 151 (note I'm just making these numbers up), then it's not like Rask is running away with anything. But if Crosby is 139, and Malkin is the next closest at 110, then Crosby is a much better option.

    Also, since you have eight forward categories and four goalie cats, then Rask can only help you win four of them, and Crosby can him you win eight of them. Big difference.
    This is a good point so let's look at the top Skaters and top Goalies with actual numbers to give some context: Crosby 139 vs next best 106. Rask 157 vs next best 121.


    Rank Player FHG Value GP G A +/- PIM GWG PPG PPA SHP
    1 Sidney Crosby PIT C 139 71 33 59 9 40 5 11 24 0
    2 Chris Kunitz PIT LW 106 69 30 29 22 60 8 12 8 0
    3 Joe Pavelski SJS C/RW 105 73 36 34 25 30 3 12 13 2
    4 Evgeni Malkin PIT C/RW 105 60 23 49 11 62 3 7 23 0
    5 Ryan Getzlaf ANA C 103 66 30 49 30 24 7 4 16 0
    6 Claude Giroux PHI C/RW 102 70 23 50 5 40 5 7 24 0
    7 Jonathan Toews CHI C 102 72 28 37 25 34 5 5 9 5
    8 Alex Ovechkin WSH RW 98 68 50 20 -28 40 9 23 11 1
    9 Corey Perry ANA RW 94 70 37 35 30 61 9 7 9 0
    10 Duncan Keith CHI D 88 71 6 48 20 26 3 3 17 1

    Rank Player FHG Value GP SV% GAA W SO
    1 Tuukka Rask BOS G 157 51 0.929 2.07 31 6
    2 Ben Bishop TBL G 121 56 0.926 2.22 33 4
    3 Carey Price MTL G 116 52 0.926 2.33 30 5
    4 Josh Harding MIN G 109 30 0.933 1.66 18 3
    5 Antti Niemi SJS G 99 57 0.916 2.29 36 4
    6 Marc-A Fleury PIT G 92 56 0.915 2.38 33 5
    7 Henrik Lundqvist NYR G 89 55 0.919 2.38 29 5
    8 Jaroslav Halak WSH G 84 48 0.920 2.25 28 4
    9 Jonathan Quick LAK G 79 42 0.915 2.08 24 5
    10 Jonas Hiller ANA G 69 46 0.915 2.4 27 5
    Yr 3 of 5 Yr - KEEP 4, 12 Manager, H2H - Category

    16 man roster
    Daily ice: 2 C, 2 LW, 2 RW, 3 D, 2 G

    Player Cats: G, A, PPG, PPA, SHP, GWG, +/-, PIM
    Goalie Cats: W, GAA, Sv%, SO (3 min starts/wk)

    My Team (KEEPERS IN CAPS):
    G: RASK, Luongo
    D: Weber, Chara, Kronwall
    TOEWS C
    GETZLAF C
    Brassard C
    Datsyuk C,LW
    COUTURE C,LW
    Cammalleri C,LW
    Backes C,RW
    Franzen LW,RW (IR)
    Vertseeg LW,RW (IR)
    Roussel LW
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    Default Re: Who is MORE valuable? Crosby or Rask.

    Crosby and it isn't even worth breaking down why.

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