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Thread: Does Tyler win the Taylor vs. Tyler battle finally?

  1. #31
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    Default Re: Does Tyler win the Taylor vs. Tyler battle finally?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    I never said that anywhere that he was THE factor.

    However, he does have cup experience, while Hall doesn't even have playoff experience.

    Big deal in real life hockey
    I agree its a big deal in real life hockey, but lets not get carried away. The only reason Seguin played on a strong team like Boston was because the Leafs dealt away their pick to them, helping Seguin land on a power house team. It wasn't because Seguin was the key cog in ensuring the Bruins success and he sure wasn't the reason they were the powerhouse they were.

    I like Seguin and I like what he has done this year in Dallas. He had a lot of pressure on him coming in and replacing a fan favorite in Eriksson and has probably exceeded expectations for the Stars management. Dallas has also done a great job in building a solid foundation up and down their lineup and have surrounded Seguin with good pieces to ensure his success.

    I honestly think this, just like on draft day, is a tough one to call and I really don't think you could go wrong choosing either guy to build your team around. I simply prefer Hall over Seguin and would prefer to have him over Tyler.
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  2. #32
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    Default Re: Does Tyler win the Taylor vs. Tyler battle finally?

    the dustin penner argument doesn't apply.

    We are talking tyler vs. taylor who are similar players.

    The fact he has a cup doesn't make him per se better, but it makes him more valuable to a real NHL team.

    Penner would be very valuable to any playoff team as well due to his experience in the long runs

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    Default Re: Does Tyler win the Taylor vs. Tyler battle finally?

    Quote Originally Posted by newfcollins View Post
    I don't understand the point. Dustin Penner has two Stanley Cups. Does that make Penner better than Seguin.
    Yes...yes it does...atleast in the Netherlands.

    Insert Autin Powers Reference. "Yes, Ok, I speak Dutch... Isnt' that Veird?"

    I guess the original question was "Who would you take to start a new Franchise (in real life)"... and less so... Did the Oiler's take the wrong guy in Hall over Seguin.

    Yes Seguin has a Cup. He wasn't all that much if a factor in the cup win, but he does have that experience. So yes, there some value there. But there are a TON of other guys out there who have Cup Experience.

    I personally think Hall is the more skilled player between the 2 (not by a landslide, but still more). I'll add my cup experience elsewhere and take Hall over Seguin.

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    Default Re: Does Tyler win the Taylor vs. Tyler battle finally?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post

    Penner would be very valuable to any playoff team as well due to his experience in the long runs
    The only Long Runs Penner has 1st hand experience with followed a bad patch of Pancakes and a roll of 1 ply.

    Listen, I do get Dutch's point about the intangible value of past Cup Experience. But for me, it doesn't make Seguin the top pick between the 2 to start a team. But that's just my perspective.

    However...As an avid Hall fan, and Self loathing Leaf fan (Very close and aware of the Kessel/Seguin saga), I still feel that I'd take Hall over Sequin. Infact, I'd probably take Kessel over Seguin with my 2nd pick if given the chance.

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    Default Re: Does Tyler win the Taylor vs. Tyler battle finally?

    For me... Tyler vs. Taylor is a toss-up.
    My knock on both is that neither is a #1 NHL two-way center.
    In the last 20 years... the truly excellent NHL teams have had incredible #1 (& #2) NHL two-way centers.

    I was in the Tyler Seguin camp a few years ago... and if forced to pick one, I'd go Seguin... but it is very, very, very close.

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    Default Re: Does Tyler win the Taylor vs. Tyler battle finally?

    I'd still rather have Hall than Seguin in an Oilers uniform. If Jamie Benn is coming along with Seguin then I'd gladly make that swap though.
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    Default Re: Does Tyler win the Taylor vs. Tyler battle finally?

    Seguin for me. I like his defensive game more, while I see their offensive abilities as similar. Factor in the lower injury risk, and I give the edge to Seguin. That said, I haven't watched many Oilers games so I can't say definitively that Seguin is indeed better defensively, but that is the impression I have gotten from games I have watched.

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    Default Re: Does Tyler win the Taylor vs. Tyler battle finally?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    Everytime I watch the Oilers I see Hall as a egoistic player. Always want to do it all alone. That's just my perception tho.
    Once again I find myself defending the Oilers and Hall, when as a fan of both I am finding it harder and harder to do so because I am so disappointed in them.

    That said, I think what you are describing in Hall has more to do with his style of play and lack of a quality centerman playing with him. Hall is a speedster who loves to create chances off the rush. He is not an elite passer and isn't necessarily the kind of player that will make others around him better. If he played with a quality center who could feed him the puck and carry the offense, Hall would be more dangerous off the rush, using his speed to beat dmen out wide, etc.

    This goes to the heart of the Seguin vs Hall argument. Seguin, as a center, would be better equipped to make his teammates better because of his style of play, even though he is more of a shoot-first center who has exceptional speed on his own. Still, when you take into account his superior passing, faceoff potential, and ability to control the center of the ice, he would be much more valuable to a rebuilding NHL team.
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    Default Re: Does Tyler win the Taylor vs. Tyler battle finally?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pengwin7 View Post
    For me... Tyler vs. Taylor is a toss-up.
    My knock on both is that neither is a #1 NHL two-way center.
    In the last 20 years... the truly excellent NHL teams have had incredible #1 (& #2) NHL two-way centers.

    I was in the Tyler Seguin camp a few years ago... and if forced to pick one, I'd go Seguin... but it is very, very, very close.
    You need to go watch Seguin more then... because to say that he isn't a true #1 center is ridiculous. Unless you don't consider guys like Tavares, Giroux or Stamkos 2- way centers because Seguin's defense is absolutely in the same class as these guys. Maybe more so.

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    Default Re: Does Tyler win the Taylor vs. Tyler battle finally?

    OH 27Blue...I just want to squeeze that big red clown nose and see if it squeaks as much as your Pro Seguin Rants!

    lol

    Are you now comparing Seguin to Tavares, Giroux and Stamkos as far as "TRUE #1 Centermen" Go? Or did I miss something?

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    Default Re: Does Tyler win the Taylor vs. Tyler battle finally?

    Quote Originally Posted by havanablast21 View Post
    OH 27Blue...I just want to squeeze that big red clown nose and see if it squeaks as much as your Pro Seguin Rants!

    lol

    Are you now comparing Seguin to Tavares, Giroux and Stamkos as far as "TRUE #1 Centermen" Go? Or did I miss something?
    If you don't see it, then you aren't watching either. Have you even watched Dallas play this year? Seguin has been dominant offensively and his defensive game is coming. He will never be as good as Bergeron or Datsyuk, but neither will any of the others that I mentioned. He is a season or two behind the others in terms of having a history at this elite level, but do you really think he is going to drop off next year? Seguin is a stud and if you don't see it, all i can say is that you aren't looking.

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    Default Re: Does Tyler win the Taylor vs. Tyler battle finally?

    Quote Originally Posted by 27Blue View Post
    If you don't see it, then you aren't watching either. Have you even watched Dallas play this year? Seguin has been dominant offensively and his defensive game is coming. He will never be as good as Bergeron or Datsyuk, but neither will any of the others that I mentioned. He is a season or two behind the others in terms of having a history at this elite level, but do you really think he is going to drop off next year? Seguin is a stud and if you don't see it, all i can say is that you aren't looking.
    So this I take that as a Yes. As an informed Dallas Viewer, you are infact comparing and equating Seguin to Stamkos, Giroux and Tavares.

    Okay. Thanks for the insight.

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    Default Re: Does Tyler win the Taylor vs. Tyler battle finally?

    I would take Seguin.

    But I think if the Oilers had drafted Seguin instead. Then I think I would be saying Hall right now. (basically meaning that whatever player ended up trapped in Edmonton would not have flourished, while the other one is).

    Oilers didn't make their picks....Central scouting did for years. No way all those guys are failures. Its the team. Something is really wrong with that team / organization and they can't seem to remedy it. Its holding these guys back IMO.
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    Default Re: Does Tyler win the Taylor vs. Tyler battle finally?

    Quote Originally Posted by havanablast21 View Post
    So this I take that as a Yes. As an informed Dallas Viewer, you are infact comparing and equating Seguin to Stamkos, Giroux and Tavares.

    Okay. Thanks for the insight.
    You are welcome. Consider yourself enlightened...

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    Default Re: Does Tyler win the Taylor vs. Tyler battle finally?

    Quote Originally Posted by fulcrum View Post
    I would take Seguin.

    But I think if the Oilers had drafted Seguin instead. Then I think I would be saying Hall right now. (basically meaning that whatever player ended up trapped in Edmonton would not have flourished, while the other one is).

    Oilers didn't make their picks....Central scouting did for years. No way all those guys are failures. Its the team. Something is really wrong with that team / organization and they can't seem to remedy it. Its holding these guys back IMO.
    I have to agree with fulcrum here.. Seguin would be in the same boat as the crest of the oil crew right now had he been selected 1st overall..

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