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Thread: Alex Ovechkin

  1. #16
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    Default Re: Alex Ovechkin

    Quote Originally Posted by bigbabybuda View Post
    This is yet to be seen imo. The guy is has not missed the playoffs since his 2nd year in the league and is fifth among active players in ppg in playoff history. I just think he hasn't had the team surrounding him to do better. Time will tell I suppose. He is not going to win any selke's as he is bad in his own end but I think it get's blown out of proportion
    It's already been shown that Ovi's game doesn't translate to the playoffs. In the majority of playoff series he has played in, he has either gotten completely shut down or he has tried to do everything himself and failed miserably. His point production and goal scoring are HIGHLY dependant on the PP (as shown by his horrid +/-), and there just aren't that many PP's to go around in the playoffs.

    I am honestly confident that Ovi will never win. He's been in the league for 9 years now, and despite his style of play and lack of a 200-foot game translating to extremely limited playoff success, he has not evolved or changed his game at all really. In the same time period, other stars like Crosby, Toews, etc. have worked on evolving their games and making their weaknesses strengths, which has translated to greater success for their respective teams. Who's the last captain that only worried about offense and scoring goals that lead his team to a Cup? I just don't see it ever happening.
    10 team, head-to-head, multi-cat, keep-12 keeper league. CATS: G,A,+/-,PPP,PIM,SOG,HITS BS,SHP, W,SV,SV%,GAA,SO Daily rosters of 6F, 4D, 2 Flex, 2G

    F: Crosby, Hall, Pacioretty, Hartnell, Neal, Nugent-Hopkins, Callahan, Dubinsky, Hossa, Huberdeau, Abdelkader, Bjugstad (IR)
    D: Karlsson, Hedman, Muzzin, Savard, Streit (IR)
    G: Lundqvist, Quick, Condon

  2. #17
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    Default Re: Alex Ovechkin

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiva Blaster View Post
    It's already been shown that Ovi's game doesn't translate to the playoffs. In the majority of playoff series he has played in, he has either gotten completely shut down or he has tried to do everything himself and failed miserably. His point production and goal scoring are HIGHLY dependant on the PP (as shown by his horrid +/-), and there just aren't that many PP's to go around in the playoffs.

    I am honestly confident that Ovi will never win. He's been in the league for 9 years now, and despite his style of play and lack of a 200-foot game translating to extremely limited playoff success, he has not evolved or changed his game at all really. In the same time period, other stars like Crosby, Toews, etc. have worked on evolving their games and making their weaknesses strengths, which has translated to greater success for their respective teams. Who's the last captain that only worried about offense and scoring goals that lead his team to a Cup? I just don't see it ever happening.

    This is all False and misconception! Again he is 5th among all active players in the league in ppg in the playoffs. And is over a ppg in 4 of his 6 playoff appearance's. He is third in the entire NHL in G/60 at even strength this year. How can anyone say his production relies on the PP as well. It is a misnomer that the statistical evidence bares to be untrue.

    The remainder of your post I have no problem with as that is your opinion and well it may differ from mine I respect it none the less
    "My Name Is My Name" ~Marlo
    "I'm just a Gangster I suppose and I want my fu***** corners"~ Barksdale

    grammar Nazi
    Noun
    (slang, idiomatic) 1. A person who habitually corrects or criticizes the language usage of others, especially in situations where it is unnecessary, e.g. an informal conversation.
    Notes: This behavior is almost always found in people with very low I.Q's, whom have a very low sense of self worth. Impotence is also commonly linked to Grammar Nazi's.

  3. #18
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    Default Re: Alex Ovechkin

    I also find it kind of funny when Ovi's supporters bring up the Kane and Kessel comparisons. First off, those two are NOT the captains of their teams, who are supposed to be setting an example and dictating style of play. Secondly, they are both tiny undersized wingers. The thing that frustrates me about Ovi is that he has all the physical tools to be dominant in his own end too: size, strength, speed, aggressiveness, physicality, etc. He just chooses not to use those assets in a capacity that will GREATLY help his team. He'd rather take minute-and-a-half long shifts and just stand around the whole time the puck is in his end, waiting to fly the zone as soon as one of his team-mates finally gets it back.
    10 team, head-to-head, multi-cat, keep-12 keeper league. CATS: G,A,+/-,PPP,PIM,SOG,HITS BS,SHP, W,SV,SV%,GAA,SO Daily rosters of 6F, 4D, 2 Flex, 2G

    F: Crosby, Hall, Pacioretty, Hartnell, Neal, Nugent-Hopkins, Callahan, Dubinsky, Hossa, Huberdeau, Abdelkader, Bjugstad (IR)
    D: Karlsson, Hedman, Muzzin, Savard, Streit (IR)
    G: Lundqvist, Quick, Condon

  4. #19
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    Default Re: Alex Ovechkin

    Quote Originally Posted by bigbabybuda View Post
    This is all False and misconception! Again he is 5th among all active players in the league in ppg in the playoffs. And is over a ppg in 4 of his 6 playoff appearance's. He is third in the entire NHL in G/60 at even strength this year. How can anyone say his production relies on the PP as well. It is a misnomer that the statistical evidence bares to be untrue.

    The remainder of your post I have no problem with as that is your opinion and well it may differ from mine I respect it none the less
    I realize Ovi's point totals in the playoffs.....that doesn't mean anything. Playoff success is determined by winning and moving on, and the Caps have been nothing but playoff underachievers with Ovi leading the charge.
    10 team, head-to-head, multi-cat, keep-12 keeper league. CATS: G,A,+/-,PPP,PIM,SOG,HITS BS,SHP, W,SV,SV%,GAA,SO Daily rosters of 6F, 4D, 2 Flex, 2G

    F: Crosby, Hall, Pacioretty, Hartnell, Neal, Nugent-Hopkins, Callahan, Dubinsky, Hossa, Huberdeau, Abdelkader, Bjugstad (IR)
    D: Karlsson, Hedman, Muzzin, Savard, Streit (IR)
    G: Lundqvist, Quick, Condon

  5. #20
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    Default Re: Alex Ovechkin

    Quote Originally Posted by bigbabybuda View Post
    This is all False and misconception! Again he is 5th among all active players in the league in ppg in the playoffs. And is over a ppg in 4 of his 6 playoff appearance's. He is third in the entire NHL in G/60 at even strength this year. How can anyone say his production relies on the PP as well. It is a misnomer that the statistical evidence bares to be untrue.

    The remainder of your post I have no problem with as that is your opinion and well it may differ from mine I respect it none the less
    his playoff performance kinda peaked in 08-09 didn't it, he has been on a downward trend since that season including the last two postseasons he was in being his 2 non ppg postseasons and the last one was only 2 points

    also ppg in the playoffs can be a tad misleading i mean 6-8 among active players are Briere, Brassard and Cammalleri
     
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  6. #21
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    Default Re: Alex Ovechkin

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiva Blaster View Post
    I realize Ovi's point totals in the playoffs.....that doesn't mean anything. Playoff success is determined by winning and moving on, and the Caps have been nothing but playoff underachievers with Ovi leading the charge.
    I understand that and if this was tennis I would be fine with that but it's a team sport not an individual sport. In 2008/2009 playoffs the games when Washinton loss to Pitt in three of them Pitt scored 4 goals that can't be blamed on Ovie. His team sucked and he carried them. Raymond Bourque didn't have a cup as the Captain of the Bruins for 15 years or whatever it was. Went to Colorado and won a cup is he a loser. No, he just didn't have the pieces surrounding him to win in Boston. Dan Marino never won a SB or Barry Sanders. Barry Bonds never won a WS. I hate measuring athletes on Championships in team sports. It makes very little sense to me. If Ovie had a Malkin, Staal, Letang on his team or a Keith, Kane, Sharp I think we would be having a very different discussion.
    "My Name Is My Name" ~Marlo
    "I'm just a Gangster I suppose and I want my fu***** corners"~ Barksdale

    grammar Nazi
    Noun
    (slang, idiomatic) 1. A person who habitually corrects or criticizes the language usage of others, especially in situations where it is unnecessary, e.g. an informal conversation.
    Notes: This behavior is almost always found in people with very low I.Q's, whom have a very low sense of self worth. Impotence is also commonly linked to Grammar Nazi's.

  7. #22
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    Default Re: Alex Ovechkin

    Quote Originally Posted by bigbabybuda View Post
    I understand that and if this was tennis I would be fine with that but it's a team sport not an individual sport. In 2008/2009 playoffs the games when Washinton loss to Pitt in three of them Pitt scored 4 goals that can't be blamed on Ovie. His team sucked and he carried them. Raymond Bourque didn't have a cup as the Captain of the Bruins for 15 years or whatever it was. Went to Colorado and won a cup is he a loser. No, he just didn't have the pieces surrounding him to win in Boston. Dan Marino never won a SB or Barry Sanders. Barry Bonds never won a WS. I hate measuring athletes on Championships in team sports. It makes very little sense to me. If Ovie had a Malkin, Staal, Letang on his team or a Keith, Kane, Sharp I think we would be having a very different discussion.
    You are right, it is a team sport and he can't do it all himself. That said, he has not been willing to evolve his game and put his considerable talent and physical prowess to work in his own end to give his team a better chance. A real leader would be doing everything they could to make sure their own game is benefitting the team as much as possible....the fact that Ovi is unwilling to do that, speaks volumes. As I mentioned, he has ALL the physical tools to be dominant in his own end as well, but makes a choice not to be.
    10 team, head-to-head, multi-cat, keep-12 keeper league. CATS: G,A,+/-,PPP,PIM,SOG,HITS BS,SHP, W,SV,SV%,GAA,SO Daily rosters of 6F, 4D, 2 Flex, 2G

    F: Crosby, Hall, Pacioretty, Hartnell, Neal, Nugent-Hopkins, Callahan, Dubinsky, Hossa, Huberdeau, Abdelkader, Bjugstad (IR)
    D: Karlsson, Hedman, Muzzin, Savard, Streit (IR)
    G: Lundqvist, Quick, Condon

  8. #23
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    Default Re: Alex Ovechkin

    Quote Originally Posted by bigbabybuda View Post
    I understand that and if this was tennis I would be fine with that but it's a team sport not an individual sport. In 2008/2009 playoffs the games when Washinton loss to Pitt in three of them Pitt scored 4 goals that can't be blamed on Ovie. His team sucked and he carried them. Raymond Bourque didn't have a cup as the Captain of the Bruins for 15 years or whatever it was. Went to Colorado and won a cup is he a loser. No, he just didn't have the pieces surrounding him to win in Boston. Dan Marino never won a SB or Barry Sanders. Barry Bonds never won a WS. I hate measuring athletes on Championships in team sports. It makes very little sense to me. If Ovie had a Malkin, Staal, Letang on his team or a Keith, Kane, Sharp I think we would be having a very different discussion.
    except nothing in this statement makes Ovechkin a winner
     
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    14 Team Yahoo H2H Daily Tomorrow League
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  9. #24
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    Default Re: Alex Ovechkin

    Quote Originally Posted by lucifer316 View Post
    except nothing in this statement makes Ovechkin a winner

    C'mon seriously!!!
    "My Name Is My Name" ~Marlo
    "I'm just a Gangster I suppose and I want my fu***** corners"~ Barksdale

    grammar Nazi
    Noun
    (slang, idiomatic) 1. A person who habitually corrects or criticizes the language usage of others, especially in situations where it is unnecessary, e.g. an informal conversation.
    Notes: This behavior is almost always found in people with very low I.Q's, whom have a very low sense of self worth. Impotence is also commonly linked to Grammar Nazi's.

  10. #25
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    Default Re: Alex Ovechkin

    Quote Originally Posted by bigbabybuda View Post
    C'mon seriously!!!
    what seriously, you started an argument about whether Ovechkin was a winner or not and have posted numbers and various other things none of which have proven him to be a winner

    the only way to argue that he is a winner is to have proof of him winning

    the rest of the stuff is nice and all but doesn't make him a winner

    i didn't have a problem with your take on Ovechkin until you decided to argue against the fact that he is not a winner

    he just isn't

    if you want to argue the +/- and the points and the goals and the this and the that well that is fine but you can't argue against the fact that he just is not a winner
     
    6 Team Yahoo H2H Daily Today League
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    W, GAA, SV, SV%
    3 C, 3 LW, 3 RW, 3 F, 6 D, 2 G, 5 Bench
    Keep 10 - 6 F, 3 D, 1 G


    14 Team Yahoo H2H Daily Tomorrow League
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    3 C, 3 LW, 3 RW, 5 D, 1 U, 2 G, 5 Bench
    Keep 14 - 2 G Max

  11. #26
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    Default Re: Alex Ovechkin

    Quote Originally Posted by lucifer316 View Post
    what seriously, you started an argument about whether Ovechkin was a winner or not and have posted numbers and various other things none of which have proven him to be a winner

    the only way to argue that he is a winner is to have proof of him winning

    the rest of the stuff is nice and all but doesn't make him a winner

    i didn't have a problem with your take on Ovechkin until you decided to argue against the fact that he is not a winner

    he just isn't

    if you want to argue the +/- and the points and the goals and the this and the that well that is fine but you can't argue against the fact that he just is not a winner
    This is silly lucifer. No where do I say he is a Winner I'm arguing you can't call him a loser because he hasn't won in a team sport. There are 25 captains in the league who have never won anything. The 3 players I mentioned are probably the 3 best players of my lifetime at there respective positions. Are they all Loser because they haven't won championships. No they were just not supported by the right pieces around them in there careers, just as Ovie has not. Washington has never had anything resembling a good D and there goaltending has been poor most of the time. I guess we need to open about 600 threads for other active NHLer's who have never won anything? My entire point in this thread is that Ovechkin is held to some ridiculous standard that every other player in the league is not held too. Not that he is a winner per say because I obviously can't prove that because he hasn't won but either have 25 other captains and none of them have a thread made about how they are loser's and need to change there games every other week. 2 years ago it was he can never score again now it's he will never win. What will it be if/when he does win? I already proved statistically that his game translates playoffs. I already proved statistically that he is not dependent on the PP to score still which was stated by two people (he is 3rd in the league in G/60 at ES). Put it is impossible to prove something that hasn't happened yet so I guess I'll start on my Tavares, Stamkos, Thornton, Weber suck threads!
    "My Name Is My Name" ~Marlo
    "I'm just a Gangster I suppose and I want my fu***** corners"~ Barksdale

    grammar Nazi
    Noun
    (slang, idiomatic) 1. A person who habitually corrects or criticizes the language usage of others, especially in situations where it is unnecessary, e.g. an informal conversation.
    Notes: This behavior is almost always found in people with very low I.Q's, whom have a very low sense of self worth. Impotence is also commonly linked to Grammar Nazi's.

  12. #27
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    Default Re: Alex Ovechkin

    except he never said he was a loser, what he said was that he would never be a winner

    and you have not proven anything regarding the playoffs

    as i pointed out his playoff production has gone down not up for the past several playoffs and Brassard, Briere, and Cammalleri fall in right behind Ovechkin in terms of active playoff ppg making that a pretty dubious determiner of future 'winners' imo
     
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    14 Team Yahoo H2H Daily Tomorrow League
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  13. #28
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    Default Re: Alex Ovechkin

    Quote Originally Posted by lucifer316 View Post
    except he never said he was a loser, what he said was that he would never be a winner

    and you have not proven anything regarding the playoffs

    as i pointed out his playoff production has gone down not up for the past several playoffs and Brassard, Briere, and Cammalleri fall in right behind Ovechkin in terms of active playoff ppg making that a pretty dubious determiner of future 'winners' imo
    That's fair enough but he said he won't ever win and I'm arguing the entire validity of the thread with 3 people. In the O.P he was compared to Yakupov because of his +/- in 1 year is bad for Christ's Sake and you don't point out the absurdity of that. The guy is a 3 time Lindsey award winner and the reigning Hart and Richard winner. My saying that he will win is none less provable then him saying he won't win!
    "My Name Is My Name" ~Marlo
    "I'm just a Gangster I suppose and I want my fu***** corners"~ Barksdale

    grammar Nazi
    Noun
    (slang, idiomatic) 1. A person who habitually corrects or criticizes the language usage of others, especially in situations where it is unnecessary, e.g. an informal conversation.
    Notes: This behavior is almost always found in people with very low I.Q's, whom have a very low sense of self worth. Impotence is also commonly linked to Grammar Nazi's.

  14. #29
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    Default Re: Alex Ovechkin

    Quote Originally Posted by bigbabybuda View Post
    That's fair enough but he said he won't ever win and I'm arguing the entire validity of the thread with 3 people. In the O.P he was compared to Yakupov because of his +/- in 1 year is bad for Christ's Sake and you don't point out the absurdity of that. The guy is a 3 time Lindsey award winner and the reigning Hart and Richard winner. My saying that he will win is none less provable then him saying he won't win!
    Yes, comparing Ovi to Yak is pretty silly. We all know who the vastly superior player is there. And you are right, no one can prove that he won't win, but the overwhelming majority of the evidence in front of us shows that it is extremely unlikely that he does.
    10 team, head-to-head, multi-cat, keep-12 keeper league. CATS: G,A,+/-,PPP,PIM,SOG,HITS BS,SHP, W,SV,SV%,GAA,SO Daily rosters of 6F, 4D, 2 Flex, 2G

    F: Crosby, Hall, Pacioretty, Hartnell, Neal, Nugent-Hopkins, Callahan, Dubinsky, Hossa, Huberdeau, Abdelkader, Bjugstad (IR)
    D: Karlsson, Hedman, Muzzin, Savard, Streit (IR)
    G: Lundqvist, Quick, Condon

  15. #30
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    Default Re: Alex Ovechkin

    Quote Originally Posted by bigbabybuda View Post
    That's fair enough but he said he won't ever win and I'm arguing the entire validity of the thread with 3 people. In the O.P he was compared to Yakupov because of his +/- in 1 year is bad for Christ's Sake and you don't point out the absurdity of that. The guy is a 3 time Lindsey award winner and the reigning Hart and Richard winner. My saying that he will win is none less provable then him saying he won't win!
    the OP was pointing out the absurdity of how badly he is playing from my interpretation of the post

    i didn't read that as a suggestion that Ovechkin was as bad of a player as Yak, but rather as complete and utter shock that Ovechkin's +/- could actually be as terrible as it is

    as for the individual awards they kinda prove the point of those who are suggesting that the guy doesn't exactly put his team first in what he does
     
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    14 Team Yahoo H2H Daily Tomorrow League
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