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Thread: Calling it now. Stamkos will never produce as much without St. Louis.

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    Default Calling it now. Stamkos will never produce as much without St. Louis.

    Obviously a small sample, but in his games without St. Louis he struggled. Still a fantastic player and great two-way player too, but I bet he caps out at 90, if that. 80-85 range for sure (small possibility of becoming injury prone too). Interested to see what everyone thinks, but I stand by the Malkin >>> Stamkos from an earlier thread lol. Dude put up 120 (something like that) in his first season and produced 110+ with Fedotenko and some random Russian lol.
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    Default Re: Calling it now. Stamkos will never produce as much without St. Louis.

    I agree as well, but anybody will have a hard time producing as well without a great offensive player to play with. I think the same can be said of St Louis.
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    Default Re: Calling it now. Stamkos will never produce as much without St. Louis.

    I think Drouin will disagree
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    Default Re: Calling it now. Stamkos will never produce as much without St. Louis.

    Yah, once Drouin gets there it'll help in a few years. My point is, he's no Malkin/Crosby/Tavares. He can't do it on his own.
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    Default Re: Calling it now. Stamkos will never produce as much without St. Louis.

    I'm going to give Stamkos a pass for the rest of the season and let's see what he does next season and beyond - my hunch is he'll still be a 50-goal, 95 point threat.
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    Default Re: Calling it now. Stamkos will never produce as much without St. Louis.

    I also think that Tampa will look into bringing in a set-up man to play with Stammer on the first line this summer, his current line-mates aren't going to cut it.
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    Default Re: Calling it now. Stamkos will never produce as much without St. Louis.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jordyr77 View Post
    Yah, once Drouin gets there it'll help in a few years. My point is, he's no Malkin/Crosby/Tavares. He can't do it on his own.
    Wut?

    Crosby
    ....
    Malkin/Ovechkin
    ....
    Tavares/Stamkos

    And that's generous. Tavares has done nothing to show he is in Stamkos' class yet. Tavares is no Malkin or Crosby either. Stamkos without a superstar linemates can and will do as much as Tavares has without a superstar winger. Losing St. Louis doesn't drop Stamkos out of PPG range, and Tavares has never produced significantly above PPG numbers. In fact, this is his first season over 1 and he did 1.12. Stamkos has done it four times already (yes I know with MSL) and he did 1.16, 1.11, 1.18, and 1.19 PPG, and this season he is 1.28, granted in only 18 games. Interesting enough, the first time Tavares goes over a PPG is when he has a star winger (Vanek) who he no longer has.

    Will Stamkos' numbers fall a bit without St. Louis? This year for sure, he will be finding chemistry and working back in to game shape. Next year? No guarantee, he's got an ever improving Hedman, Kucherov, Drouin, Johnson, Palat, Killorn. Lots of skilled guys in Tampa. And who says he can't do it on his own. He will adapt. You don't score a pro-rated 90+ points 4 seasons straight (starting with your second NHL season) only because of your linemates.

    Is Stamkos better than Malkin? No, I'm not sure anyone that would argue that. But I'd probably still take him over Tavares without much hesitation, Tavares hasn't shown he can go over a PPG without a star winger either and he took until his 5th NHL season to do it.
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    Default Re: Calling it now. Stamkos will never produce as much without St. Louis.

    Quote Originally Posted by rataylor22 View Post
    Wut?

    Crosby
    ....
    Malkin/Ovechkin
    ....
    Tavares/Stamkos

    And that's generous. Tavares has done nothing to show he is in Stamkos' class yet. Tavares is no Malkin or Crosby either. Stamkos without a superstar linemates can and will do as much as Tavares has without a superstar winger. Losing St. Louis doesn't drop Stamkos out of PPG range, and Tavares has never produced significantly above PPG numbers. In fact, this is his first season over 1 and he did 1.12. Stamkos has done it four times already (yes I know with MSL) and he did 1.16, 1.11, 1.18, and 1.19 PPG, and this season he is 1.28, granted in only 18 games. Interesting enough, the first time Tavares goes over a PPG is when he has a star winger (Vanek) who he no longer has.

    Will Stamkos' numbers fall a bit without St. Louis? This year for sure, he will be finding chemistry and working back in to game shape. Next year? No guarantee, he's got an ever improving Hedman, Kucherov, Drouin, Johnson, Palat, Killorn. Lots of skilled guys in Tampa. And who says he can't do it on his own. He will adapt. You don't score a pro-rated 90+ points 4 seasons straight (starting with your second NHL season) only because of your linemates.

    Is Stamkos better than Malkin? No, I'm not sure anyone that would argue that. But I'd probably still take him over Tavares without much hesitation, Tavares hasn't shown he can go over a PPG without a star winger either and he took until his 5th NHL season to do it.
    I know I jumped the gun on Tavares lol, I'm just really high on him. But I think he needed Marty more than Marty needed him. His stats away from Marty are not good. He'll still be a ppg I just think expectations should be lowered a bit (80-90)
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    Default Re: Calling it now. Stamkos will never produce as much without St. Louis.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jordyr77 View Post
    I know I jumped the gun on Tavares lol, I'm just really high on him. But I think he needed Marty more than Marty needed him. His stats away from Marty are not good. He'll still be a ppg I just think expectations should be lowered a bit (80-90)
    A point I never argued, and yet Tavares was having the best year of his career and was on pace for 91 points. Again, happening the first time when he finally had a star winger to play with, which once again, he no longer has. I love Tavares, but his best season to date is Stamkos' worst season other than his rookie year. Even if Stamkos should be downgraded, at worst he should be downgraded to the same level as Tavares, because he was a tier above him
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    Default Re: Calling it now. Stamkos will never produce as much without St. Louis.

    Quote Originally Posted by fungchen3 View Post
    I'm going to give Stamkos a pass for the rest of the season and let's see what he does next season and beyond - my hunch is he'll still be a 50-goal, 95 point threat.
    Im with fung here. I am not going to watch the next couple weeks of games and make any assumptions on him and his future. With him coming off a major injury, his numbers may not be normal based on that fact alone. Losing Marty will hurt, but lets not lose focus on the fact that TBL has a lot of very good young prospects coming up through the system. I bet Stamkos is looking forward to playing with a lot of these kids and making them better players, along with making him a better player as well.
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    Default Re: Calling it now. Stamkos will never produce as much without St. Louis.

    Are we going crazy here??! This is Steven F@&%*"$ Stamkos we are talking about!!

    The KID that has a rocket for a shot, a blazing fast stride and an uncanny hockey sense. He has had nothing but success in the NHL, playing along side various players over the years. People tend to have a very short term memory of things and panic when regular events get derailed; this is especially true when talking about fantasy hockey. Bottom line, Marty or no Marty, Stamkos will do just fine (if not better) going forward.

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    Default Re: Calling it now. Stamkos will never produce as much without St. Louis.

    I think the answer to this question will fall with Brad Richards production for the rest of the year ? If B.Rich goes on a PPG+ pace the rest of the way that should tell us all exactly how much MSL means to a line mate ? Stamkos is a stud and will be awesome until he's 110 years old !
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    Default Re: Calling it now. Stamkos will never produce as much without St. Louis.

    Too many extremists in this thread...it seems everyone is either in the doom or gloom 'all is lost' camp or the 'Malkin? Shmalkin' camp and sadly neither is true.
    Stamkos will definitely struggle the rest of this season, as much due to his injury as to losing his elite setup man. I'm willing to bet he'll be back to full health next season and eager to prove his critics wrong but I think he's still going to miss MSL until he can develop the same chemistry and magic with another linemate. I liken MSL-Stamkos to Getz-Perry, it's a combo that is much greater than the sum of it's parts, you can't just sub in a different part (no matter how talented) and expect it to work as well. Now that said, I think Stamkos is one of those players who makes his linemates better just by being on the ice with him so it's only a matter of time before he returns to form. So I think he struggles a bit this season and next and then at some point next season or the year after it clicks back into place again...certainly Drouin owners are salivating that it could be him

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    Default Re: Calling it now. Stamkos will never produce as much without St. Louis.

    for strictly points leagues, my internal rank now goes from

    crosby malkin stamkos ovechkin tavares

    to

    crosby malkin ovechkin stamkos tavares

    only a drop of one spot.
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    Default Re: Calling it now. Stamkos will never produce as much without St. Louis.

    Stamkos may take a slight hit in value long-term. It's a possibility, people, let's stop talking about it like we know exactly how this is going to shake out. Losing MSL sucks, but this is Steven Stamkos we're trashing ... You don't score 45 goals in your 2nd NHL season just because of linemates. C'mon ...
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