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Thread: Kesler has asked for a trade

  1. #31
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    Default Re: Kesler has asked for a trade

    And I would think that Gillis' goose has to be cooked soon, even the dumbest owner would have a tough time looking at the last 2 years of his work and deeming him capable.
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    Default Re: Kesler has asked for a trade

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiva Blaster View Post
    I'm saddled up for this glorious soap opera......oh how the mighty Canucks have fallen. Kesler probably wants out because he can't act like a smug, self-important prick on a team that is swirling down the crapper and is going to miss the playoffs. Bieksa and Burrows will probably follow suit because their similar schtick doesn't fly on a bad hockey team. And best of all, Canucks fans will have to lose that elitist, in-your-face, 'we're better than you', attitude that drives most other Canadian hockey fans nuts.

    Gillis is a moron and has completely run this team into the ground......I was so happy when they didn't fire him last summer so he could have another year or two to really put the nails in the coffin. Hiring Torts, alienating Kesler, and then extending the far past their prime and hugely ineffective Sedin sisters are all monumental gaffes, this team's window to win is officially closed and they will be extrely lucky to eek out a playoff spot in a very tough division moving forward. Glorious.
    Well. I'm certainly not going to disagree because I feel pretty much the same. But I don't want this to degrade into ranting about another team.

    In regards to Kesler - if he's dealt, does this signal the start of a rebuild for the Canucks? I'm thinkin' yes.

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    Default Re: Kesler has asked for a trade

    Entering a rebuild, it sure would be nice to have a goalie entering his prime years to build around.

    Wait, oops.
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    Default Re: Kesler has asked for a trade

    Quote Originally Posted by Fast Tony DeNiro View Post
    Entering a rebuild, it sure would be nice to have a goalie entering his prime years to build around.

    Wait, oops.
    Goalies aren't the problem, neither is the blue line for that matter.
    The fact that every offensively useful forward is the wrong side of 30... that's the problem.

    Lack is 26, Edler 27, Stanton and Tanev 24... There's stuff to work with, but the neglect of forward development for the last few years is really starting to show through.
    /S

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    Default Re: Kesler has asked for a trade

    Lack, Stanton and Tanev......? That's a problem.

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    Default Re: Kesler has asked for a trade

    Just saw this on twitter

    Rob Rossi ‏@RobRossi_Trib
    #pens did pitch #Canucks on Kessler before Olympics. Hearing Sutter, Pouliot part of those talks. That was before Letang situation

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    Default Re: Kesler has asked for a trade

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Guru View Post
    Lack, Stanton and Tanev......? That's a problem.
    Tanev is over 20min/game average in 54 games with reasonable +/- and Corsi numbers to boot...

    Lack has a .924 sv% on the season, so that isn't really costing them is it?

    Certainly not the problems I'd point to on a team that is bottom 3 in both Shooting % and Powerplay %.
    /S

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    Default Re: Kesler has asked for a trade

    I have all the confidence in the world that Mike Gillis will screw this up!
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    Default Re: Kesler has asked for a trade

    Quote Originally Posted by Axeman33 View Post
    I have all the confidence in the world that Mike Gillis will screw this up!
    I agree w/ this 100%
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    Default Re: Kesler has asked for a trade

    TSN.ca- Darren Dreger believes there has to have been some dialogue about a possible trade between the Canucks and Kesler. “I know that teams were contacted as far back as a month ago to say ‘have a look at our roster. If there is a member of this organization that you want to take a run at then we’re listening, we’re open for business”, said Dreger, who claims that also includes Kesler. He feels there could be enough interest in Kesler to make a trade deadline deal possible, but that depends upon the Canucks asking price.

    No way you contact teams about making an offer on a player with a NTC unless you have previously had a conversation with said player about being traded. Kesler can deny all he wants but I don't believe him. He wants to play for a team in the US.
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    Default Re: Kesler has asked for a trade

    Genuine question here. There seems to be a general trend that people believe twitter/press reports over statements by the club/player. I live in the UK, and generally it is the opposite. The press make so much stuff up when it comes to football transfers, most of which turns out to be completely fictional with nothing more than they need to fill some space so start a rumour, that on the whole reports like this would be treated as mere speculation and an attitude of "until something happens, or the player/club says something, this is rubbish" prevails.

    I'm not just talking about Kessler here. But the Marty stuff, Cammelleri etc etc.

    Is this just the norm in the US/Canada? Are the press less liable to make something up and only report on something when they have stuff to back it up. All press claim they have "contacts", I'm not really talking about that, but perhaps more that if a member of the press continually printed rumours that turned out not to be true, they'd gradually be shunned by their peers etc? Because I would LOVE that to happen over here, but the opposite tends to be the case. Whoever shouts loudest gets to print, irrespective of any truth in what they are writing. Some of the writers for The Sun and others have basically made careers off of making stuff up. I remember one guy being called out on TV as he was saying "no smoke without fire" on a story until the interviewer produced evidence to show said "reporter" has started the rumour himself and then basically piped it out to his mates to gain support.
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    Default Re: Kesler has asked for a trade

    Quote Originally Posted by Axeman33 View Post
    I have all the confidence in the world that Mike Gillis will screw this up!
    ~SIGH~

    I have absolutely no reason to believe you won't be correct...
    /S

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    Default Re: Kesler has asked for a trade

    Quote Originally Posted by Herman Bloom View Post
    Is this just the norm in the US/Canada? Are the press less liable to make something up and only report on something when they have stuff to back it up. All press claim they have "contacts", I'm not really talking about that, but perhaps more that if a member of the press continually printed rumours that turned out not to be true, they'd gradually be shunned by their peers etc? Because I would LOVE that to happen over here, but the opposite tends to be the case. Whoever shouts loudest gets to print, irrespective of any truth in what they are writing. Some of the writers for The Sun and others have basically made careers off of making stuff up. I remember one guy being called out on TV as he was saying "no smoke without fire" on a story until the interviewer produced evidence to show said "reporter" has started the rumour himself and then basically piped it out to his mates to gain support.
    Generally speaking I know I am more likely to believe those reporters who have been shown to be credible in the past over official comments by a player/team who are the subject of the debate. I listed to Bob McKenzie discuss Kesler this morning and he made a few good points. I consider McKenzie to be both credible and have actual "insider sources".

    Bob said a number of things:
    1. He had heard from numerous people he trusted that Kelser had talked about wanting out of Vancouver while in Sochi. Not that he had told Vancouver just that he'd prefer to get out.
    2. He believed the source who initially reported Kesler had asked for a trade but also generally believed Kesler's denial.
    3. Bob explained "You can ask for a trade, You can demand a trade, You can have your agent ask for or demand or say you'd be willing to waive your NTC. All of these are slightly different ways of doing the same thing. If players or teams want to hide behind semantics they can. Maybe Kesler sent his agent to the Canucks and said Kesler would be willing to waive his NTC to go to the right team. Since Kesler has a NMC he has all the power, you don't say you'd be willing to waive your NMC if you don't want out of Vancouver. Kesler can say he hasn't asked for or demanded a trade and not by lying while another source may read between the lines and say he's asked for a trade."

    Bob also pointed out that teams do these semantic dances. He said teams hate when it's reported that they are "shopping a player" they like to say "we're listening to offers" or "we're looking for the right deal". This is why Bob used the phrase "aggressively listening" to offers around Kesler, because Vancouver had denied they were making the calls (shopping) but still they were willing to listen (aggressively) to offers.

    To the second half of your point their are some bloggers and reporters (mainly bloggers) out there who like to throw out rumours with little or no substance. When these guys are wrong often enough their reputation takes a hit and soon few people believe the stuff they right. In summation, I'll believe a trusted reporter over a player/GM but don't give much weight to random bloggers. Also, often both sides can claim they are telling the truth by doing the semantics dance.
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    Default Re: Kesler has asked for a trade

    Quote Originally Posted by Herman Bloom View Post
    Genuine question here. There seems to be a general trend that people believe twitter/press reports over statements by the club/player. I live in the UK, and generally it is the opposite. The press make so much stuff up when it comes to football transfers, most of which turns out to be completely fictional with nothing more than they need to fill some space so start a rumour, that on the whole reports like this would be treated as mere speculation and an attitude of "until something happens, or the player/club says something, this is rubbish" prevails.

    I'm not just talking about Kessler here. But the Marty stuff, Cammelleri etc etc.

    Is this just the norm in the US/Canada? Are the press less liable to make something up and only report on something when they have stuff to back it up. All press claim they have "contacts", I'm not really talking about that, but perhaps more that if a member of the press continually printed rumours that turned out not to be true, they'd gradually be shunned by their peers etc? Because I would LOVE that to happen over here, but the opposite tends to be the case. Whoever shouts loudest gets to print, irrespective of any truth in what they are writing. Some of the writers for The Sun and others have basically made careers off of making stuff up. I remember one guy being called out on TV as he was saying "no smoke without fire" on a story until the interviewer produced evidence to show said "reporter" has started the rumour himself and then basically piped it out to his mates to gain support.
    Great question here. Also interesting to hear how how the sports-media dynamic can work across the pond in terms of rumours and speculation.

    For me, I take whatever is being reported and also take into account if what's being passed along makes sense, then I go from there. As far as the Kesler situation, I don't disbelieve it at all. Consider that he's been with the organization for a long time, has endured a lot of the success and disappointment and could be frustrated with how the season has been going for the Canucks. They're not the powerhouse they used to be and I'd assume that the bungled situation with Luongo probably has a few guys in the dressing room facing some uncertainty about their GM. As good a guy as Luongo seems to be, I think it'd be naive to believe that his "feud" with the organization hasn't impacted the rest of the team in some way - probably negatively, especially for other guys signed there long-term. Could also affect younger guys like Horvat and Shunkaruk and change their views on the organization. I could see how Kesler would want to be dealt from the drama which has occurred in VAN.

    I also look at the Canucks in the standings and consider their payroll. They're currently out of a playoff spot and tied for 9th-overall in the West with two games in-hand over PHX. They're only four games over .500, Henrik Sedin has suffered the first long-term absence from the team and his brother has 13 goals in 61 games-played. That ain't so good. Both Sedins appear to be in the decline of their careers, just signed extensions with the team and will (likely) only be traded in unison to the same team. That's a combined $14M cap hit starting next season for both. Safe to say they can't/won't be dealt.

    Who else has value as a trade asset if the Canucks want to improve and get younger? Kesler. He might not have peaked yet (though likely has), but would be highly-sought. Really good two-way guy, plays all special teams, works hard and contributes at all ends of the ice. His cap hit isn't bad at all - $5M annually. Most, if not all of VAN's other forwards have far-lesser value and Kesler could bring a lot in return via trade. I've read that a possible return could be a 1st-rounder, good roster player and good prospect.

    When I hear Bob McKenzie or Darren Dreger report that Kesler has requested a trade or that Gillis is shopping him, it makes complete sense. Same with Cammalleri in CGY - the Flames have prolonged their rebuild far too long and he would likely garner the best return. But I can also understand why Burke might be trying to keep him as Cammalleri has a great attitude, work ethic and is a good guy to have as a leader. He can still score too.

    Kesler will continually deny that he wants to be traded because a) he doesn't want to undermine possibly BEING traded and interfering with negotiations and b) he doesn't want to incur the wrath of the public if he admits to it and isn't traded. That's my theory anyway. If he has asked for a trade, he's handling it the right way, IMO. Unlike Dany Heatley.

    There are absolutely members of the press who conjure up spectacular rumours and general b.s. to get readers, but those are usually the more outlandish pieces. Heaven help some of the more "reputable" former players - I still remember how harsh some of the Twitter replies were to Aaron Ward when he mistakenly "broke the news" that Iginla had been dealt to the Bruins last season from CGY.

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    Default Re: Kesler has asked for a trade

    I actually think that Gillis has been quite competent. He will probably get fired, as that is what happens in this job.. But incompetent? Nah.
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