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Thread: Tanking?

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    Default Tanking?

    So, I started this thread in order to gauge the community's thoughts on the issue of actively tanking one's roster in order to get high draft picks.

    For the sake of argument, let's assume that the hypothetical league in question does not mention tanking in the league rules. There is no explicit prohibition or allowance for tanking. Should it be allowed? Yes? No? Sometimes? Never?

    I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this one.
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    Default Re: Tanking?

    Quote Originally Posted by mounD View Post
    So, I started this thread in order to gauge the community's thoughts on the issue of actively tanking one's roster in order to get high draft picks.

    For the sake of argument, let's assume that the hypothetical league in question does not mention tanking in the league rules. Should it be allowed? Yes? No? Sometimes? Never?

    I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this one.
    It should never be allowed if it impacts the league. What I mean by that is note the large difference between intentionally tanking and trading. You cannot penalize a low seeded team for trading away players for draft picks, prospects, etc. BUT, if the guy is not setting his roster or is dropping good players for terrible players for no apparent reason, then he needs to be reprimanded. Do a lottery-style draft system. I will never recommend not doing a lottery.

    Edit: I should add that this is for Head to Head leagues, because intentionally tanking by doing things like not setting your roster influences everyone else's weeks and seeds, which has big impacts. If it's a roto league, it's not a big deal but it takes away the integrity of the league.

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    Default Re: Tanking?

    Yeah, just to be clear I don't think tanking is a good idea in the abstract, either. It's not a good thing to promote because it fosters ill-will in the league, and it can be achieved by either outright intentional tanking or by inactivity -- either one is just as nefarious as the other. Just curious what Dobbernation thinks about it in the grand scheme of fantasy hockey.
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    Default Re: Tanking?

    Quote Originally Posted by mounD View Post
    Yeah, just to be clear I don't think tanking is a good idea in the abstract, either. It's not a good thing to promote because it fosters ill-will in the league, and it can be achieved by either outright intentional tanking or by inactivity -- either one is just as nefarious as the other. Just curious what Dobbernation thinks about it in the grand scheme of fantasy hockey.
    Yep. Those are my thoughts. To prevent it our league does a double-lottery. So both the 1st and 2nd picks are a weighted lottery, meaning you are arguably better off to try and finish as best as possible in the league for playoff matchups than to place last. We also have the rule that if you are suspected of intentionally tanking twice, then you drop to last place pick. We've never had an issue.

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    Default Re: Tanking?

    im not a fan of tanking at all. what you need to do is add rules to negate tanking. may have to vote on adding rules and it may not go but at least the league together will set the standard.
    its a tough argument to bann tanking when its not in the rules.
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    Default Re: Tanking?

    Same thing happened in my league last season. We had a new team intentional tank to win the top pick. We never had this happen before so it was never included in the orginal league constitution. Since it wasn't in the rules, we allowed it to happen even though it defeats the spirit and integrity of the league. In the offseason, we amended and updated the constitution to include an anti-tanking clause to help eliminate this going forward. It sucks but since we didn't have it originally on paper, we honoured this loop hole until league rules were updated in the offseason.
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    Default Re: Tanking?

    Tanking is for cowards. Don't play fantasy if all you want to do is settle for anything less than first place.

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    Default Re: Tanking?

    if there is no existing rule on tanking then I don't think there's much you can do about it. Like it or not its a legitimate strategy to help your team next year and even pro teams do it.

    I don't think you have to worry about people dropping good players for bad players because that person should be trying to trade for picks instead. As for teams not setting a full roster, I've seen guys finish -30 in GP for any number of reasons including limited trades/IR spots/WW moves, not enough goalies to go around, etc. So penalizing based on reaching a certain GP is hard.

    In roto leagues it doesn't really matter if someone tanks, it has no effect on this year's winners. I can see how this would be different in head-to-head leagues though and those should have anti-tanking provisions.
    In one of my leagues tanking is allowed but also penalized - the last 3 finishers bring beer, pizza, and snacks to the next draft.
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    Default Re: Tanking?

    Quote Originally Posted by gainerama View Post
    Same thing happened in my league last season. We had a new team intentional tank to win the top pick. We never had this happen before so it was never included in the orginal league constitution. Since it wasn't in the rules, we allowed it to happen even though it defeats the spirit and integrity of the league. In the offseason, we amended and updated the constitution to include an anti-tanking clause to help eliminate this going forward. It sucks but since we didn't have it originally on paper, we honoured this loop hole until league rules were updated in the offseason.
    This is kind of my feeling on the hypothetical situation discussed in the OP. If it's not in the rules, it's a very tough situation trying to "punish" someone who is acting entirely within the confines of the league's established rules. Thanks for the response.

    EDIT: To be clear, I am in a league where I am ranked 10th of 12 teams; however the teams ranked in 11th and 12th are substantially "better" teams stacked with obvious premier talent, but are only ranked substantially lower than myself because of their inactivity. So this week, I decided I would take matters into my own hands and control my own draft destiny by benching players. There are no provisions addressing tanking in the league rules, and I feel even though my actions are morally suspect, they are entirely legal pursuant to our league's structure. I don't like what I'm doing, but I don't feel I shuould be punished for it.

    Currently, the league is debating whether to impose sanctions against me, including possible removal from the league. Thoughts, Dobbernation? Should I be allowed to tank in order to get my rightful draft position back from the inactive superpowers? What say you?
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    Default Re: Tanking?

    Just playing devils advocate here, but there is something to be said for intentionally and knowingly taking an action (benching your players to get a better draft pick) that it detrimental to the league (as pointed out, in a H2H league this impacts standings / playoff seedings). You don't always need a black and white rule to know what you're doing is wrong or that if caught, you could be punished for it. Kovalchuk's 1st contract is a good example. If it could get voided for violating the spirit of the CBA, but not actually breaking a rule, then it shouldn't come as a complete surprise that your league is debating whether or not to impose a sanction for something you did that negatively impacts the league.
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    Default Re: Tanking?

    Quote Originally Posted by Referee3083 View Post
    Just playing devils advocate here, but there is something to be said for intentionally and knowingly taking an action (benching your players to get a better draft pick) that it detrimental to the league (as pointed out, in a H2H league this impacts standings / playoff seedings). You don't always need a black and white rule to know what you're doing is wrong or that if caught, you could be punished for it. Kovalchuk's 1st contract is a good example. If it could get voided for violating the spirit of the CBA, but not actually breaking a rule, then it shouldn't come as a complete surprise that your league is debating a sanction.
    That's a very good point, although I would like to point out that to this point a substantial period of time had passed without anything being done in response to the "inactive" owner. I was pretty much under the impression that there had been a degree of acquiescence to the other owners' behavior. I know that tanking is bad, I don't enjoy doing it. I just feel this is a definite gray area in fantasy leagues, and wanted to get the community's feedback on where I stand. I don't wish to continue tanking at this point, and I don't feel I should be punished, at least not for a single incident where others have gone unpunished for substantially longer periods of time.

    This league is a fantastic league to be in, I'm just worried something bad is gonna happen during these deliberations, and I'm going to get kicked out for this one-time thing. Ultimately, I just want to make sure I'm not crazy for doing what I did, lol.
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    Default Re: Tanking?

    Its not the most ethical approach, but its not against the rules. The league shouldn't be able to do shit without rules that make the behaviour illegal. It would be pretty bad if they created rules, midseason to kick you out of the league. Intentionally tanking by not dressing your best players changes the outcome of the final standings. Someone who faced you in an earlier week might have faced stiffer competition. Intentionally sitting your best players gives an unfair advantage to those you play the handicapped team more. I can see why they might be pissed, but I dont see what they can do about it in the middle of the season.

    If it were me, I'd be icing the best team possible and trying to get the inactive managers kicked out. There is no place for inactive managers. They are league cancer.

    To me, it sounds like its time to find a new league mate. Unless all these problems are resolve by the voting in of new rules. They seem to be going down a very bad road with allowing inactive managers, people intentionally tanking and talk about imposing sanctions on players for things there are not illegal.

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    Default Re: Tanking?

    Quote Originally Posted by mounD View Post
    That's a very good point, although I would like to point out that to this point a substantial period of time had passed without anything being done in response to the "inactive" owner. I was pretty much under the impression that there had been a degree of acquiescence to the other owners' behavior. I know that tanking is bad, I don't enjoy doing it. I just feel this is a definite gray area in fantasy leagues, and wanted to get the community's feedback on where I stand. I don't wish to continue tanking at this point, and I don't feel I should be punished, at least not for a single incident where others have gone unpunished for substantially longer periods of time.
    That's completely fair too. And I wasn't trying rake you over the coals...just presenting a different angle. I agree that you shouldn't be singled out here. If they feel some sort of sanction is warranted, it should apply to all 3 teams. Kicking you out of the league seems completely absurd, especially with the league's situation. There are already 2 inactive managers, and kicking you out, especially when you are an active manager wanting to stay, would make that problem worse. Slap on the wrist with a loss of a draft pick or limiting how high you pick in the 1st round? I could see justification for that. But you can make just as much of a case for simply telling you to stop.
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    Default Re: Tanking?

    Totally fair. Thanks for the input, everyone.
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    Default Re: Tanking?

    Subtle tanking I am fine with...Trading away the middling veterans for youth, picking up longshot guys with upside, or guys who should have broken out two years ago in the hopes that they finally do. If you are active, and dressing full lineups, and those lineups suck because you are stocking up on youth and taking some chances in the hopes of unearthing a keeper or two (Okposo would have been an example this year) then I am fine with that.

    If you haven't logged in to the league since October 14th, ignore every trade inquiry, and just plan to show up next summer and draft Ekblad, I have a problem with that.

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