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Thread: Leafs sign Kessel to 8 year contract

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    As much as Im not a fan of Kessel he doe's have the third most points in the league over the last 3 years soo it is a good price I suppose...
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    Quote Originally Posted by mister_mcgoo View Post
    it's totally fair...the cap last year was the same as 2010, the cap this year is the same as in 2011. Malkin is a little unfair to throw in there but I just wanted to include him for raw comparison's sake
    For the Getzlaf/Perry's 2013 contracts, you're comparing their current year salaries to Kessel's average cap hit. That's apples to oranges.

    I was going to respond earlier but decided I'd rather enjoy the game instead. Ironically, HNIC did the job for me in the 2nd intermission.

    Comparable cap hits of the exact guys you mentioned under the new CBA:
    -Malkin $9.25M
    -Perry $8.65M
    -Getzlaf $8.25M
    -Kessel $8.00M

    Have a nice day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mister_mcgoo View Post
    more than a bit high dude, I'm shocked how many Leaf fans are creaming their panties over this one...actually no I'm not, this is par for the course I guess -lol

    just consider for a moment what 8mil gets you:

    Stamkos - 8mil - 2011
    Perry - 7mil - 2013
    Getz - 6.5mil -2013
    Malkin - 7.5mil -2009
    Backstrom - 6mil - 2010

    I think 6.5-7mil range should have been what they targeted. It's not a horrible deal but like I keep saying, when you continue to overpay and make poor cap decisions, they eventually pile up and compound one another and you wind up with no maneuverability, that's what I see for the Leafs in the future.
    Didn't Getzlaf and Perry sign for >8m ?
    Perry at 8.625
    Getzlaf at 8.25
    According to capgeek

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Ev View Post
    I think you would find few people who would take kessel over getzlaf and perry
    I think it would be closer than you think.

    Getzlaf I'd have to think twice about, but I'd take Kessel over Perry in a heartbeat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blayze View Post
    For the Getzlaf/Perry's 2013 contracts, you're comparing their current year salaries to Kessel's average cap hit. That's apples to oranges.

    I was going to respond earlier but decided I'd rather enjoy the game instead. Ironically, HNIC did the job for me in the 2nd intermission.

    Comparable cap hits of the exact guys you mentioned under the new CBA:
    -Malkin $9.25M
    -Perry $8.65M
    -Getzlaf $8.25M
    -Kessel $8.00M

    Have a nice day.

    ok fair enough, we need to look at pure cap hit if we want it to be comparable, lets do that but lets not cherry pick ok? Malkin is worth two Kessels, so that's a bad comparison. Lets look at cheaper contracts though:

    Stamkos - 7.5
    Parise -7.538
    Backstrom - 6.7
    Kane - 6.3
    Toews - 6.3

    I take ANY of those guys over Kessel

    have a nice day

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Ev View Post
    I think you would find few people who would take kessel over getzlaf and perry
    I dunno Ev, there are a TON of delusional Leafs fans...now if Perry had come to TO we'd be hearing a very different story

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    Quote Originally Posted by mister_mcgoo View Post
    ok fair enough, we need to look at pure cap hit if we want it to be comparable, lets do that but lets not cherry pick ok? Malkin is worth two Kessels, so that's a bad comparison. Lets look at cheaper contracts though:

    Stamkos - 7.5
    Parise -7.538
    Backstrom - 6.7
    Kane - 6.3
    Toews - 6.3

    I take ANY of those guys over Kessel

    have a nice day
    Again you missed the entire point about comparing old contracts with new ones under the new CBA...

    And who's cherry picking? Those are the guys that YOU mentioned lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by mister_mcgoo View Post
    I dunno Ev, there are a TON of delusional Leafs fans...now if Perry had come to TO we'd be hearing a very different story
    Last I recall he had you on ignore

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    Quote Originally Posted by blayze View Post
    Again you missed the entire point about comparing old contracts with new ones under the new CBA...

    And who's cherry picking? Those are the guys that YOU mentioned lol
    and you're still ignoring the point I made previously

    you absolutely can and SHOULD compare comparable contracts when the max cap is the same. In terms of the league cap:

    2012 (60mil) = 2010 (59.5mil)
    2013 (64.3mil) = 2011 (64.3mil)

    you're cherry picking because you chose all the cap hits HIGHER than Kessels and ignored the ones that were lower. It goes both ways you realize?

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    Quote Originally Posted by blayze View Post
    Not a chance in hell bro. Watch him play defense for a few games and I'm sure you'll retract that statement.

    Here's just a small sample of his fine work: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfZctQ7kBOE

    Trust me... that wasn't an isolated incident.
    Some GM will give him that kind of money.
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    Quote Originally Posted by baumer View Post
    Some GM will give him that kind of money.
    Exactly. Phaneuf gonna get paid by someone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mister_mcgoo View Post
    ok fair enough, we need to look at pure cap hit if we want it to be comparable, lets do that but lets not cherry pick ok? Malkin is worth two Kessels, so that's a bad comparison. Lets look at cheaper contracts though:

    Stamkos - 7.5
    Parise -7.538
    Backstrom - 6.7
    Kane - 6.3
    Toews - 6.3

    I take ANY of those guys over Kessel

    have a nice day
    Quote Originally Posted by mister_mcgoo View Post
    and you're still ignoring the point I made previously

    you absolutely can and SHOULD compare comparable contracts when the max cap is the same. In terms of the league cap:

    2012 (60mil) = 2010 (59.5mil)
    2013 (64.3mil) = 2011 (64.3mil)

    you're cherry picking because you chose all the cap hits HIGHER than Kessels and ignored the ones that were lower. It goes both ways you realize?
    It absolutely doesn't make sense to compare pre and post new CBA contracts. Why would that make any sense? The new CBA brought in new rules that changed how teams can resign their own players, rules that were not in place before.

    The biggest difference between old and new CBA is the term limit. Teams can now only sign their own players to a max of 8 years, and UFA's can only sign to a max of 7 years. That's pretty signficant actually. Let's use Parise for an example.

    Parise waas 28 when he signed with the Wild. He signed a 13 year deal, that takes him to 41. In his last three years, he has a salary of 2, 1, and 1 million, years he's unlikely to play. Those years allow the team to significantly drop his hit. This pushes his hit 9.4 million. Those extra years that are no longer allowed under the CBA, actually allow teams to artificially lower his cap hit. So while it's 7.5 million, that's only because the team was able to push his contract so long into a point he's not likely to play and use those years to give him little salary and push his cap hit down. You can't do that anymore. You think if Parise was a UFA this summer that he'd be asking for 7.5 million a year for 7 years? Doubtful. The new term limit changes everything.

    Secondly if you're going to ignore that the term limit changes everything, you have to look at where those other players signed their deals. Stamkos was coming off his first contract and his ELC. Kessel is coming up to his UFA years after he's had two contracts already. It's the exact same thing for Kane, Toews and Backstrom. All coming off their ELC's, got nice raises. Makes little sense to compare their second contracts while RFA's to Kessel's third while in his final year before UFA status. When Kane comes up after 14/15, you can compare Kane's new contract and Kessel's extension. Not before though.

    And finally, you can't even look at those contracts and compare them. Kessel's cap hit won't hit the team until next season. Who knows what the cap is then. Once you know, if you still stubbornly continued to only look at cap hit (which makes absolutely no sense without context of any sort), you could compare how each contract stacks up against the cap. But that still wouldn't make sense since you're comparing contracts signed as RFA's to one's signed to one with only one season to UFA, and signed under the old CBA compared to the new CBA.

    TL: DR Comparing cap hits makes no logical sense in any way, shape or form.
    Last edited by theIceWookie; October 2, 2013 at 9:51 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by theIceWookie View Post
    It absolutely doesn't make sense to compare pre and post new CBA contracts. Why would that make any sense? The new CBA brought in new rules that changed how teams can resign their own players, rules that were not in place before.

    The biggest difference between old and new CBA is the term limit. Teams can now only sign their own players to a max of 8 years, and UFA's can only sign to a max of 7 years. That's pretty signficant actually. Let's use Parise for an example.

    Parise waas 28 when he signed with the Wild. He signed a 13 year deal, that takes him to 41. In his last three years, he has a salary of 2, 1, and 1 million, years he's unlikely to play. Those years allow the team to significantly drop his hit. This pushes his hit 9.4 million. Those extra years that are no longer allowed under the CBA, actually allow teams to artificially lower his cap hit. So while it's 7.5 million, that's only because the team was able to push his contract so long into a point he's not likely to play and use those years to give him little salary and push his cap hit down. You can't do that anymore. You think if Parise was a UFA this summer that he'd be asking for 7.5 million a year for 7 years? Doubtful. The new term limit changes everything.

    Secondly if you're going to ignore that the term limit changes everything, you have to look at where those other players signed their deals. Stamkos was coming off his first contract and his ELC. Kessel is coming up to his UFA years after he's had two contracts already. It's the exact same thing for Kane, Toews and Backstrom. All coming off their ELC's, got nice raises. Makes little sense to compare their second contracts while RFA's to Kessel's third while in his final year before UFA status. When Kane comes up after 14/15, you can compare Kane's new contract and Kessel's extension. Not before though.

    And finally, you can't even look at those contracts and compare them. Kessel's cap hit won't hit the team until next season. Who knows what the cap is then. Once you know, if you still stubbornly continued to only look at cap hit (which makes absolutely no sense without context of any sort), you could compare how each contract stacks up against the cap. But that still wouldn't make sense since you're comparing contracts signed as RFA's to one's signed to one with only one season to UFA, and signed under the old CBA compared to the new CBA.

    TLR Comparing cap hits makes no logical sense in any way, shape or form.
    Thanks for doing the leg work. Sometimes it's just not worth it

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by blayze View Post
    Thanks for doing the leg work. Sometimes it's just not worth it
    It's true haha. But I'm having a slow morning so I figured why not haha
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    I take it all back, it's a fantastic contract, almost as good as the Clarkson signing...if anything they got a deal on Kessel

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