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Thread: Trouba vs Dumba vs Wiercioch

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by VincentVega View Post
    If you can wait 5 years, that's fine.
    Not really fine because most leagues will fold before those 5 years are up.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Ev View Post
    Being the answer to what?

    He has taken a big step recently and is primed for good numbers in the coming years. His passing is among the best I've seen. Every rookie will make mistakes, not sure what you're basing your opinion on as he hasn't played a ton of games.
    The answer to the other half of the D pairing on the top PP unit. I'm basing my opinion on what I've seen from him in the games he has played. I almost always value proven players over prospects but I'm just not a fan of Wiercoch. Just my opinion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbabybuda View Post
    Taking Wiercoch ahead of either of these other two players in a keeper league is close to insanity imo. There is no part of his game that will even be close to either of the others in 2 years. To take an average player over two of the top rated defensive prospects in hockey because of short term gain is a pure recipe for long term mediocrity imho.


    Trouba
    Dumba




    Weircoch
    This may be your opinion but it is just not an informed one any way you slice it. Wiercioch isn't average and his playmaking is far superior to Trouba's and probably Dumba as well. Trouba is a better prospect, but again, not better offensively. I suggest you watch Wiercioch this season, you'll be in for shock.

    But I get it, Top 10 picks > 2nd rounders...

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    Quote Originally Posted by VincentVega View Post
    Right. Because we all know how reliable the prediction of offensive upside for top rated defensive prospects is. Erik Johnson (and Jack), Hedman, Bogosian were all hailed to be the next great thing. Meanwhile, lesser rated prospects (during or immediately after their draft year) like Karlsson, Letang and Subban are leading the way offensively. Trouba is the most over-hyped prospect right now. He is far more likely to follow Bogosian-like offensive progression than a fast-tracked one. If you can wait 5 years, that's fine. Take him for the peripherals if you want but don't expect top offensive numbers soon.
    Agreed, and Trouba is even less-skilled offensively than Bogosian as well.

    I just have to stress again that I am only talking about their fantasy hockey upsides. It's like comparing Wiercioch to Cowen, I would take one for real life and one for fantasy.

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    If we were speaking about MY league (Roto: G, A, P, +/-, PIM, PPP, SOG, DEF. G: W, SV%, GAA, SO), I like Dumba. Wiercioch is likely your best solution as most productive this season, but overall in the long run I like Dumba. Maybe because I'm a big fan of multi-tool players over big name studs. My league has a few strange dynamics though: $90 buy in with 9 (progressive, next season 12) keepers going in [year 4]. $0.50 waiver and $1 trade. Transaction fees divided by 4 into 4 side pots for leaders in DEF, PTS, PIM, and combination of Goalie stats.

    So, my league has extra incentive for DEF and PIM which is why I like Dumba so much. I think he has almost Subban potential, and, after Tuukaa Rask, Subban and Weber are arguably the most valuable players in my league because they contribute to 2 categories worth extra money. So take that point for whatever it is worth

    So, if you want a solid multi-cat guy for the long run, I like Dumba. Plus I'm led to believe he has a wicked shot, so there's your SOG and progressive PP time this season which should translate to points. I know MIN will likely roll 4 F on PP1 but these days that big RH blast who can play the PP is a rarity for some reason. This is why I feel Cody Franson will hurt the Leafs more than they (or fantasy owners) will realize even though he's not that gerat of a defender overall

    I would like Trouba more if WPG weren't so F thin and D heavy. I tend to feel that 2nd pair D are only as good as the forwards in front of him. playing 2nd pair D beside Bogosian does leave Trouba some room to wander offensively, but the secondary assists won't come on such an offensively thin team. It leaves it all up to his talent to produce 35-40 points.

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    So, in short, I plan to take Dumba with my final pick (we allow pick trading all summer, so with what I've done, my last pick is 3 rounds ahead) in hopes he has fallen off most radars and with the intention of protecting him as 1 of my 12 keepers entering year 5. I just think he has too much potential to contribute everywhere to pass up in the long term as multi-cat D. He won't likely fall into one of my starters this season (9F, 5D, 2 UTIL, 2 G, 4 BN) but since I don't think my team can compete well without some lucky picks and streaming going into my season, I'm willing to sit on him for next season as a top-4 guy with some PP2 time early and PP1 time late and some decent scorers in front of him, who could shoot a reasonable amount, and possibly hit me triple-digit PIM with a +/- that won't necessarily hurt me. Plus injuries can insert him this season as he is AHL eligible I believe.

    Trouba is not on my radar right now (he will be next year, or late in season if I know I'm out of it), but Wiercioch is on my radar in my draft, and only as a serviceable player who could yield me some current season trade value, or quietly contribute points similar to the likes of Voynov last season if I'm lucky. I think the Sens would be more inclined to trade/sign veterans periodically to fill those PP1/PP2 defense voids, as proven by Gonchar, Corvo, and so forth. Based on what we've seen, should any PP-capable D thrive (or at least be very useful) beside Erik Karlsson? So, why not sign those aging, yet historically proven guys in on the cheap periodically after Wiercioch has a career season and asks for too much money.

    Just my 8 cents, however...
    Last edited by Neverender9; September 26, 2013 at 4:53 AM.

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    The comparisons aren't between Trouba and Bogo, the query was Wiericoch, and Dumba and the cats were multi not just points. watching tape of each along their paths to where they are and how they stand out compared to their peers is what my assessment is based upon. Wiericoch is in the best positin roster wise right now to produce pts over Trouba but not necessarily the in the other cats where Troubs has the higher upside right now and moving forward. For this season Dumba will be a 9 gamer at best so he's the back of the bus. Ceci is the real deal and starting as soon as next year will cannibalize whatever PP opportunities Wiericoch has, no different than how Buff, Enstrom, and to a lessor effect Bogo will affect Trouba. I still stand by my assessments of Wiericoch, Trouba, Dumba yrs 1-3, then Trouba, Dumba, Wiericoch yrs 3-5. at worst over the next 2-3 yrs Trouba is Carlson with an edge, more hits and PIM's which isn't all that bad.

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    Ceci is hardly guaranteed to be on the team next year. He will not get in the way of Wiercioch in the next 3 years

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    1. Trouba
    2. Wiercioch
    3. Dumba

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    NO. PLAYER POS G A P +/- PIM S HITS BKS GVA TKA FO% PP TOI TOI
    J. Trouba D 1 1 2 2 0 2 1 4 1 1 2:59 25:02

    That is all!
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbabybuda View Post
    NO. PLAYER POS G A P +/- PIM S HITS BKS GVA TKA FO% PP TOI TOI
    J. Trouba D 1 1 2 2 0 2 1 4 1 1 2:59 25:02

    That is all!
    You forgot first star honours.

    Pretty stellar first pro game!

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    Just give him the Norris and Grabovski the Hart

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    He doesn't need the Norris just an aknowledgement that the kid can play. The scary part is that he might still be growing, his uncles are 6'7" and 6'9" and 260+. He looked very poised and for a coach like Noel who is not someone who throws newbie's into situations for the sake of doing so, leading the Jets in overall icetime is an indication that he'll be around for a while. Maybe the showing at theWJC did mean something after all.

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    A side note, there's only 8 months difference in age between Jones and Trouba, not quite sure how much more development there's been in that time frame but I'll concede that he is a touch older. Others would argue that the time spent in Cdn junior accelerates you towards the NHL game over NCAA but that's a whole different debate. I think it's safe to say Trouba has passed Postma and Redmond on the depth chart and Clitsome may have Wally Pip-ed himself out of the top four.

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    Trouba was insanely good last night. The amouint of minutes he played and the situations he played in say it all. This kid was on the ice to protect their one goal lead in the last few minutes. He was poised, positionally sound and aggressive. His goal was a bit lucky (Dubnyk should have had it) but it was also a bit of a weird shot as it seemed to drop just before reaching the net. Fantasy value aside, this kids value as an NHL'er is huge if this and his last few pre-season games are any indication. Points and PIM wil come based solely on the amount of ice time he's gonna get. Personally, I'd be running with Trouba over the other two.
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