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Thread: Yahoo! Positions - Boooo!

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    Default Yahoo! Positions - Boooo!

    Just had a brief email conversation with Chinny about Yahoo! positions and felt like putting it in here as a topic of discussion.

    Why doesn't Yahoo! stick with one position? To me, they're catering to the whiners...the babies who complain that this player is not LW, he's RW, or this guy isn't LW he's C because he practiced the other day at center. Yahoo! possibly got sick of the nonsense and just gave 100 players multiple positions. Boo!

    Give the player one position, tell everyone to suck it up. And then add the second position later when a player plays at least most of a game there. Later. There's no rush to do it now. Brent Burns may never play defense this entire season. Byfuglien will probably never get a sniff of forward at even strength.

    And shame on everyone who complains about this stuff. Why not accept one position for what it is - a challenge - and enjoy the game? It's a level playing field, so a delay in adding a position is not a big deal. Relax!
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    At this point....you might well just make your Yahoo leagues have all Forward positions.

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    Dobber, I completely agree.

    I just wish somebody among the "powers that be" (i.e. Whoever Yahoo! contracts) could provide a justification for these positions.

    I mean... a couple adjustments were made...
    Seguin was given C/RW, despite playing RW all year.
    Benn was shifted to strictly LW, despite playing C for majority of year.
    So... somebody caught the "Dallas Stars Projected Lines" news item and made an adjustment.

    Also, Ovechkin was shifted to RW only.
    And, Tlusty was shifted to LW only.

    So somebody was making some adjustments... but I guess it would have been too much work to go through everybody, psh.
    I mean... how casual of a hockey fan do you have to be to not know that:
    *Claude Giroux is a center
    *David Backes is a center
    *Brent Burns is a forward
    *Dustin Byfuglien is a defenseman


    I was actually considering (what one might consider) a potentially valuable project.
    Get a team of persons, the "Position Kings" (PKs) who actually "watch" the games and follow box scores.

    Have a database created, where after every game somebody logs each team's:
    4C
    4LW
    4RW
    6D
    At least... wherever a guy played a majority of position (not including position shifting due to fill-ins, such as if a guy like Clarkson gets a misconduct and some 4th line LW plays 2nd line RW... he wouldn't get a "LW" designation).

    Mostly based on starting line-ups, a players first shift out there... at what position.


    My criteria:
    i) 10 games banked in a season at a position, he gets that POS, FOR THAT YEAR.
    ii) 30 games banked in a season at a position, he gets that POS, FOR ALL NEXT YEAR TOO. [the "Patrick Sharp Criterion".]
    iii) If a player doesn't play 30 games at one position or only a few NHL games, his majority position ONLY rules.

    With numbers-based games (fantasy hockey), there should be numbers-based criteria for positional analysis.


    You can do it, Dobber.
    1. Set up a shared GoogleDoc with some moderator privileges.
    2. We make a master player database in Column 5. For ease of data entry, start by team, then alphabetical: Fowler,Getzlaf,Perry & all Ducks, then Boston, etc...
    3. We make a 82-column top row (Game1, Game2, Game3) starting in Column 6.
    4. After every game, we (the "position kings") fills in the player field: "LW", "C", "RW", "D".

    Have some running totals next to the player's name (a sum of positions), Columns 1(C total),2(LW total),3(RW total),4(D total)

    Easy, peasy... DobberHockey becomes the position gurus of fantasy hockey.
    Tracking fantasy hockey positional game logs since 2013.
    Done.
    Last edited by Pengwin7; September 20, 2013 at 2:58 PM.

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    Almost my entire team I drafted last night is dual eligible lol...

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    Yahoo should give each player only one position and then readjust the following off-season. You draft a player at a given position and he sticks with that position, and only that position, ALL year. You can make changes in the off season to reflect reality. rinse and repeat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 27Blue View Post
    Yahoo should give each player only one position and then readjust the following off-season. You draft a player at a given position and he sticks with that position, and only that position, ALL year. You can make changes in the off season to reflect reality. rinse and repeat.
    The problem with that though is you're always a season behind essentially. Like in the case of Seguin. By that method he would have been a C only while he was playing RW and now that he's projected to be back at C in Dallas he would be RW only

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    ^Agree.
    And especially with FOW now being popular in some pools, position information is critical.

    For example, Jamie Benn was C last year.
    Say Dallas did not make an announcement about their planned shift of him to wing.

    Yahoo! would open, Benn would be listed as C.
    Then,
    Case 1: We don't yet know that Dallas plans on moving him to wing.
    People "not in the know" (which we could be "pre-camp") would draft Benn at C.
    Then we find out he's not playing center... so you're rostering a guy in a center position that is not taking face-offs.
    You get frustrated and go tell Yahoo! to eff themselves because they cost you your pool.

    or,

    Case 2: People know that Benn will be only at wing and not taking face-offs.
    You have your draft and everybody is passing on Benn... because he's listed as a C that is not taking face-offs.
    Not really fun to pass on a player because he'll "hurt you" at that position.

    [I think what Yahoo! has probably learned from complaints is that they have less criticism from too-much-eligibility than they got from incorrect eligibility.]

    I'm actually glad that Yahoo! adjusts... and when they adjust "during" season, it's often well needed.
    It's just the initial positions that are so terrible.

    (And it would've been completely OK, IMO, to give Benn C/LW and Seguin C/RW. The bigger problem are that Giroux and Backes should be C only... Buff D only... Burns RW only.)
    Last edited by Pengwin7; September 20, 2013 at 3:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bondon View Post
    The problem with that though is you're always a season behind essentially. Like in the case of Seguin. By that method he would have been a C only while he was playing RW and now that he's projected to be back at C in Dallas he would be RW only
    but at least everyone is in the same boat. nobody gets an unfair boost to their players values AFTER they havedrafted them. To me that is theworst part.... player values are changed AFTER the draft. If you know Benn isn't going to take face-offs because he will be playing LW, but he is listed as only a center and you league counts FOW, then he drops in your rankings... everyone who is paying attention will drop him. but to change his eligibility after the drafting is done is unacceptable.

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    I am just hoping to be able to draft Burns in my keeper but deal him before years end in the hopes he no longer is D eligible next year!
    But yes as Dobber mentioned i don't understand the reasons for dual positions, unless you can win all-star awards for 2 positions in the same year.. oh wait cancel that!

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    At the end of the day, commissioner's should be given the free reign to make these decisions over their leagues. If I want Byfuglien to be available only as a defenseman in the league I run, that should be my choice. Or the choice of the GMs in my league and I.

    If I want Burns available only as a RW(as he should be) then that's the way it should be.

    Because where do you draw the line? Aw shit you know sometimes Marty St. Louis will take the draw when Stamkos gets thrown out of the dot, maybe we should make MSL a center too?!!

    Ridiculous, for sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pengwin7 View Post
    Dobber, I completely agree.

    I just wish somebody among the "powers that be" (i.e. Whoever Yahoo! contracts) could provide a justification for these positions.

    I mean... a couple adjustments were made...
    Seguin was given C/RW, despite playing RW all year.
    Benn was shifted to strictly LW, despite playing C for majority of year.
    So... somebody caught the "Dallas Stars Projected Lines" news item and made an adjustment.

    Also, Ovechkin was shifted to RW only.
    And, Tlusty was shifted to LW only.

    So somebody was making some adjustments... but I guess it would have been too much work to go through everybody, psh.
    I mean... how casual of a hockey fan do you have to be to not know that:
    *Claude Giroux is a center
    *David Backes is a center
    *Brent Burns is a forward
    *Dustin Byfuglien is a defenseman


    I was actually considering (what one might consider) a potentially valuable project.
    Get a team of persons, the "Position Kings" (PKs) who actually "watch" the games and follow box scores.

    Have a database created, where after every game somebody logs each team's:
    4C
    4LW
    4RW
    6D
    At least... wherever a guy played a majority of position (not including position shifting due to fill-ins, such as if a guy like Clarkson gets a misconduct and some 4th line LW plays 2nd line RW... he wouldn't get a "LW" designation).

    Mostly based on starting line-ups, a players first shift out there... at what position.


    My criteria:
    i) 10 games banked in a season at a position, he gets that POS, FOR THAT YEAR.
    ii) 30 games banked in a season at a position, he gets that POS, FOR ALL NEXT YEAR TOO. [the "Patrick Sharp Criterion".]
    iii) If a player doesn't play 30 games at one position or only a few NHL games, his majority position ONLY rules.

    With numbers-based games (fantasy hockey), there should be numbers-based criteria for positional analysis.


    You can do it, Dobber.
    1. Set up a shared GoogleDoc with some moderator privileges.
    2. We make a master player database in Column 5. For ease of data entry, start by team, then alphabetical: Fowler,Getzlaf,Perry & all Ducks, then Boston, etc...
    3. We make a 82-column top row (Game1, Game2, Game3) starting in Column 6.
    4. After every game, we (the "position kings") fills in the player field: "LW", "C", "RW", "D".

    Have some running totals next to the player's name (a sum of positions), Columns 1(C total),2(LW total),3(RW total),4(D total)

    Easy, peasy... DobberHockey becomes the position gurus of fantasy hockey.
    Tracking fantasy hockey positional game logs since 2013.
    Done.
    I just wanted to say, I kind of love you for this post. Awesome stuff...I'd totally be down to contribute to such a project!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Hockey Hitman View Post
    I just wanted to say, I kind of love you for this post. Awesome stuff...I'd totally be down to contribute to such a project!!
    I'll see if I can set it up on Monday.
    I have a spreadsheet with last year's players from Yahoo.

    I'd just need some help adding rookies and doing team changes for guys that switched locations over the summer.

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    Guys... give this a click and see if you can view it:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...Wc&usp=sharing

    Sort of a first working model for logging positions.
    Counters on left.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 27Blue View Post
    but at least everyone is in the same boat. nobody gets an unfair boost to their players values AFTER they havedrafted them. To me that is theworst part.... player values are changed AFTER the draft. If you know Benn isn't going to take face-offs because he will be playing LW, but he is listed as only a center and you league counts FOW, then he drops in your rankings... everyone who is paying attention will drop him. but to change his eligibility after the drafting is done is unacceptable.
    I completely agree with 27Blue here. I want absolute equality and will accept some artificialness (is that a word?) if required. Absolute equality to me means this: the day your provider opens they establish every player's position for the year, their are no additions or alternations period! This creates consistency at the expense not being 100% accurate. We acknowledge that "this is fantasy hockey not real hockey" when we draft Mike Green well before Drew Doughty I think the same logic applies here. Sure Seguin may become a Centre this year, in the NHL, but in yahoo fantasy hockey he's a RW. If you're in a FOW league (a terrible stat due to multi-position issues) you can scout and draft guys who are incorrectly listed as wingers, or guys who may become centres (Seguin) but you can't draft 5 RW/C guys (Giroux, Malkin) knowing full well they are centres and slotting them in the wing.

    The problem with allowing some dual eligible players is it's a slippery slope: once you give 1 player dual eligibility (even those who are legitimate dual players, of which they are very few) every owner thinks his guy deserves dual eligibility as well. I find that the first guys to get dual-eligibilty are not true dual guys but rather superstars who likely are complained about the most.

    I really thought ESPN was on the right track this season, the season started with every player having 1 position only! Then, in the first week of the season, they added some duals, then a few more, the next thing you know Malkin has RW eligibility! Malkin is not a RW and has not started a game as a RWer in years!

    Finally, Pengwin I love your project idea. If it takes off and we can say that with confidence what position every player played in a given game and then use that data to set an actual framework for getting dual eligibility that would be amazing. Any guy who plays 20+ games at a position should have that eligibility the following year. However, until that data is available I want what I suggested above, every player gets 1 position for the whole year. Further, even if your data is crystal clear I'm skeptical about yahoo ever using it to set positional eligibility as it would result in more complaints to them.
    Last edited by LawMan; October 10, 2013 at 3:43 PM.
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    Note to Dobber:

    Yahoo is just honoring the versatility of all of these wonderful players who assume multiple roles in their overbearing coach's system.


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    I just noticed that Jeff Carter is C/LW/RW eligible. Da fuq?

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