Ben Bishop: 15th ranked in top-50

[Dobber]

I just came into this forum to start the exact same thread. I was blown away when I saw Bishop at 15. This is a guy who lost his starting job to a 19 year while playing for Team USA at the World Championships. Stevie Y has also already gone on record stating that he and Lindback will be platooning starts to start the season until a clear #1 emerges.

I can cite, without even thinking about it, 1000 instances where the GM "has gone on record stating" something and it doesn't work out. No, not a thousand. A million. The Leafs GM said that same thing last month. And Philly's GM said the same thing last month. And Schneider is a backup in New Jersey?

Nope, Emery, Bernier and Schneider (and Bishop) will be the starters by November. The GM's say what they must in order to provide their goalies with confidence. Ray Shero went on record in April that Fleury would be their starter in the playoffs. How did that work out? And he knew that it wouldn't work out, but he said the right things because maybe - just maybe - the goalie would gain confidence from that and play better.

"lost his starting job to a 19-year-old" - is that some kind of statement against Bishop?

Lindback and Bishop will platoon and Lindback will get hurt. Just like Varlamov and Neuvirth "will platoon" (remember that?). Just like Neuvirth and Holtby "will platoon" (remember that?). My best guess is to go with the guy who stays healthy when they supposedly are to 'platoon'.

But as I said, Bishop is ranked between 9th and 22nd because you look at the rating and not the ranking. You are free to slide him up and down the chart as you see fit.

[The Hockey Hitman]

[Rrabbit]

Well, it doesn't matter who starts for Tampa Bay because if you're relying on a Tampa goalie to get you any sort of meaningful production, you're in for a rough ride. How long has it been since there was a Tampa goalie with any kind of fantasy relevance? 10 years? Khabibulin 03-04.

[TavesSoul]

Goalie rankings are tough. There's so much change and turnover. The elite guys are easy, but it's tough past that. Lets look at who's ranked below him:

Anderson - better then Bishop, but he's got an injury history, and Lehner nipping at his heels.
Dubnyk - I don't think he's a top 25 goalie, so that's fine. He has no real challengers.
Miller - has just been average for a couple years.
Schneider - they'll allow Marty to have a good fair well tour, so that limits Schneider's value
Bernier - Reimer is still there.

Lehtonen is the only goalie I look at and can't reason my way into understanding his ranking. I guess injuries?

Now I'm not saying I'd have Bishop as high as Dobber does, but I don't think it's absolutely crazy. I don't think Lindback will challenge him much, and no one else is close in TB yet. I think Bishop's super talented, and I think people are sleeping on him and over-hyping Lindback. Goalies don't leave Nashville and excel.

[Axeman33]

Goalie rankings are tough. There's so much change and turnover. The elite guys are easy, but it's tough past that. Lets look at who's ranked below him:

Anderson - better then Bishop, but he's got an injury history, and Lehner nipping at his heels.
Dubnyk - I don't think he's a top 25 goalie, so that's fine. He has no real challengers.
Miller - has just been average for a couple years.
Schneider - they'll allow Marty to have a good fair well tour, so that limits Schneider's value
Bernier - Reimer is still there.

Lehtonen is the only goalie I look at and can't reason my way into understanding his ranking. I guess injuries?

Now I'm not saying I'd have Bishop as high as Dobber does, but I don't think it's absolutely crazy. I don't think Lindback will challenge him much, and no one else is close in TB yet. I think Bishop's super talented, and I think people are sleeping on him and over-hyping Lindback. Goalies don't leave Nashville and excel.

Considering he barely got a shot to play in Nashville, I dont see how him leaving there really has anything to do with him excelling or failing anywhere else.

[Big Ev]

The Bishop ranking isn't as bad as the Anderson one.

[hockeypoolfanatic]

I can cite, without even thinking about it, 1000 instances where the GM "has gone on record stating" something and it doesn't work out. No, not a thousand. A million. The Leafs GM said that same thing last month. And Philly's GM said the same thing last month. And Schneider is a backup in New Jersey?

The reason those GMs said the same thing is because they do plan on platooning the goalies until a starter emerges. Why would they do otherwise? It makes sense when you have two goalies who could legitimately be the starter. Lindback and Bishop will share starts to begin the season, which makes perfect sense. Whoever plays the best will become the starter. Why is it that Bishop has been penciled in already like it's a sure bet? What has he proven? His numbers in his 9 games in Tampa: 3-4-1, 2.99 GAA and .917 %. And this guy is the guaranteed #1 starter for Tampa? Why? I must be missing something. If someone has some insight, please share.

"lost his starting job to a 19-year-old" - is that some kind of statement against Bishop?

Yes it is. He lost his starting job once because of poor play, it could easily happen again. He was handed the keys to the car in the World Championships and blew it. He looked ok during some of his starts but when the money was on the line he looked shaky. Those first 2 goals against Slovakia….ouch. Really ugly. And those weren’t the only ugly ones he let in. There were plenty. There will be a ton of pressure on him in Tampa to succeed because people have already crowned him the new #1. I’m not saying that just because he dropped the ball during the Worlds that he will do the same in Tampa but when push comes to shove does he have what it takes to handle all the pressure that comes with being a #1 goalie in the NHL?

My biggest issue is why does everyone think Bishop will be the starter and not Lindback? Is Bishop that much more talented? No way. Is he guaranteed to be the starter? No way. Just seems like a lot of assumptions are being made and people are getting ahead of themselves crowning Bishop as the starter. Lindback was fortunate enough to work with Mitch Korn, arguably the best goalie coach in the NHL, for 2 years in Nashville. He was able to mirror Pekka Rinne on a daily basis and learn from him. You could not ask for a better situation to learn how to succeed as a goaltender in the NHL. He has unbelievable talent and was thrown under the bus in Tampa last season. Expectations were way to high on him and people consider him a “failure” somehow and now are ready to say Bishop is the man. Justin Goldman made me a believer in Lindback a year ago. I've been a fan ever since:

http://www.thegoalieguild.com/2012/0...-expectations/

[Big Ev]

Linback is so good his talent just shifts the strs and the cosmos and his spirit just makes the mind of every teammate expand to new limits

[Carcillo]

Lindback and Bishop will platoon and Lindback will get hurt.

So after being injured for the first time in his NHL-career (to my knowledge) last season, you consider Lindback as injury prone now?

[mounD]

I really started a good one here, eh?

[als_revenge]

I really started a good one here, eh?

Yes. I rep'ed you for it even before it got crazy in here, lol

[Pengwin7]

I really started a good one here, eh?

LOL. You did.
Good gawd, we are starved for fantasy hockey conversation in August.
Thanks for the thread starter, for sure!

[Dean Youngblood]

My list is perfect

1.Price
2.Rask
3.Quick
4.Lundqvist
5.Rinne
6.Luongo
7.Schneider (Brodeur's presence complicates his ranking right now but once MB retires, Schneider deserves this rank)
8. Anderson (Lehner will dictate his future, as Robin will be HIGH on this list)
9. Crawford (benefits from being on a strong team, technically, I don't like him)
10.Ward
11.Hiller
12.Markstrom (not established yet, but he'll quickly fly up the ranks)
13.Howard (see Crawford)
14.Miller
15.Niemi
16.Lehtonen (Team knocks him down but based on skill, he should be this high)
17.Bobrovsky
18.Smith
19.Lehner (temporary position, he will be a top 5 goaltender. Mark it)
20.Holtby
21.Bernier (unproven but I've got faith....I think)
22.Pavelec (underappreciated IMO)
23.Fleury (similar to Howard and Crawford)
24.Backstrom (pedestrian goaltender, not elite but steady when he's not injured)
25.Reimer
26.Dubnyk
27.Nabokov
28.Varlamov
29.Halak
30.Bishop
31.Ramo
32.Emery
33.Mason


Goaltenders are extremely volatile and young goaltenders with mediocre pedigree have such short leashes and opportunities to make their mark and earn their spot. Turnover is so high with goaltenders unless you own that high draft pedigree and/or have taken advantage of your opportunities (which only lengthens their leash slightly).

So many of these goaltenders have made an impressive living, never quite peaking as elite goaltenders but there's much to say about their ability to remain as starters for so long (Lehtonen, Ward, Emery, Hiller, Backstrom, etc.)

And then, you have those goaltenders who have peaked as stars (Luongo, Miller, Anderson, Fleury, etc) either by merit/skill or simply because of the strong teams they have played on. The latter often keeps slightly above-average goalies up the ranks (Howard, Crawford, Fleury are examples) and it's hard to knock them down too far down the list because of it.

The hardest thing with ranking goaltenders is placing the young ones with tons of upside/skill simply because of the unknown - will they ever get a chance? Holtby, Schneider and Hiller were these goaltenders who made it based on earning their stripes and succeeding with their opportunities. Irving, Ramo are two young ones that need that opportunity.

Furthermore, the Rasks, Markstroms, Berniers, and Lehners (much like the Prices ahead of them) will be given looooooong leashes to prove themselves and should be fixtures in the top 10 for years to come (assuming their teams become/remain competitive). Again, no guarantee which complicates projections and rankings.


John Gibson (ANA) and Andrei Vasilevski (TBL) are two more that will be given loads of opportunity to become NHL star starters.

End Rant.

[Dean Youngblood]

Oh ya.....by the way....

Goalies are weird

[The Hockey Hitman]

Food for thought from a Lightning fan....Lindback is still very highly regarded within the organization and will be given just as much opportunity as Bishop this season. Bishop was acquired to give them a tandem, hoping the situation will "push" both of them to be their best.

Both are Bishop/Lindback have a very high compete level and have been living in the shadows of bigger name goaltenders...in theory this should bring out the best in both. I wouldn't expect one to outshine the other by a significant margin this season. Despite what numbers may indicate, Lindback played pretty good this past season. He played behind an awful, ultra-charmin soft defense and did the best he could in a tough situation. I wouldn't be disregarding Lindback so easily.

A lot will depend on camp and who new Lightning head coach Jon Cooper and his new staff feel about the two goaltenders...they could come out clearly favoring one over the other. Or maybe they get a half/half split most of the season. Either way, I wouldn't want either TB goaltender as a fantasy goaltender in a one-year league this season...and I'd make damn sure neither Bishop or Lindback was no more than a 4th goalie in a dynasty keeper league this season.