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Thread: Spezza+ for Koivu++

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    Default Spezza+ for Koivu++

    This would be a counter to an offer I received.

    My Spezza and Ceci for his M Koivu, Pitkanen, T Johnson and one of M Staal or E Johnson

    It's a 14 team points based H2H multi-cat dynasty league. Cats are G/A/+-/PIM/STP/Hits/Blocks/TOI, with an emphasis on peripherals (especially blocked shots). Daily starts, 9F/6D/2G.

    For a little perspective, my team is a win now type situation and D is my weak point heading into this season. The way I see it Koivu is a small downgrade from Spezza and Ceci is probably worth a little more than T Johnson (though I have quite a few prospect D) Is adding a couple of depth D worth it?

    Another potential option would be swapping Lindholm for Ceci.

    Thoughts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GretzkysMullet View Post
    This would be a counter to an offer I received.

    My Spezza and Ceci for his M Koivu, Pitkanen, T Johnson and one of M Staal or E Johnson

    It's a 14 team points based H2H multi-cat dynasty league. Cats are G/A/+-/PIM/STP/Hits/Blocks/TOI, with an emphasis on peripherals (especially blocked shots). Daily starts, 9F/6D/2G.

    For a little perspective, my team is a win now type situation and D is my weak point heading into this season. The way I see it Koivu is a small downgrade from Spezza and Ceci is probably worth a little more than T Johnson (though I have quite a few prospect D) Is adding a couple of depth D worth it?

    Another potential option would be swapping Lindholm for Ceci.

    Thoughts?
    What does your current D look like? It's hard to know just how much of an upgrade that package is for your team....

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    Wisniewkski
    Daley
    Gonchar
    Leddy
    Klein
    Salo

    So, pretty weak. There are a few decent options in FA that I might be able to snag once it opens after the draft, but I think regardless something like this helps me for next season since my depth is basically non-existent.
    WHL - Halifax Krakens

    C - Backstrom, Zetterberg, Plekanec, Dubinsky, Thompson
    LW - Landeskog, E. Staal, Steen, Marchand, Berglund, Tanguay
    RW - Atkinson, Eriksson, Stempniak, Shaw, Comeau
    D - Hedman, Goligoski, Demers, Beaulieu, Kulikov, C. Murphy, Seidenberg, Holden
    G - Quick
    IR - Berra, Wisniewski
    Prospects - Demko, Samuelsson, Labanc, Stolarz, Hickett, Marchenko, Lessio, Backman, Vladar

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    With your Dmen I would only move Spezza to really upgrade there. Pitkanen is not the answer here. And I really think Spezza is head and shoulders above Koivu. So it's a no for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RangerFan View Post
    With your Dmen I would only move Spezza to really upgrade there. Pitkanen is not the answer here. And I really think Spezza is head and shoulders above Koivu. So it's a no for me.
    Frankly, I don't really care for this deal either. I have no faith in Pitkanen...and one of M. Staal or E. Johnson does not seem enough to justify trading Spezza (and a really good D prospect).

    I'd rather roll the dice in free agency.

    I also don't like Ceci for Lindholm. I don't think either makes the NHL next year...and I like Ceci's upside better. There's no point in trading a defensive prospect like that unless you are getting immediate help.

    Something like Ceci for E. Johnson is a deal I'd consider, if you are in "win now" mode. Look for a team that can't compete, and offer a future stud for an 'ok' guy to help you now. Something like that is what I'd try to do.

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    As a Spezza owner, I do not believe that "Koivu is a small downgrade from Spezza".

    A downgrade is fine, so long as there is a better ot corresponding upgrade. In this case, there is not. I would not make this deal.
    13 team Keeper, top 8F, 4D and 2G count. 1pt G/A, 2pt W/SO.
    Protect b/w 375 - 400 points in a full season

    F: Stamkos, Draisaitl, Forsberg, RyJo, Drouin, E Staal, E Kane, Hornqvist, Lee, Kreider, Zuccarello, Ehlers, Anisimov

    D: Carlson, Ghost, Myers, Sekera, Severson

    G: Luongo, Hellybucyk, Ward.

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    I'm a firm believer that you need to win HITS/BLKS leagues by rostering at least 2/3rds of your defense to be MONSTERS in those categories.
    Also, with your TOI category, you need to have TOI MONSTERS on defense as well.

    Daley, Leddy, and Salo can be definite weak spots on your defense.
    Daley's time will decrease with Gonchar in town.
    Leddy is a nice offensive player but his HIT & BLK are both under 1 per game... and you just can't roster those kinds of players in a HIT/BLK league.
    Salo doesn't really HIT much and at 38 years old his TOI will continue to decrease.

    As for newly added players in this trade:

    1) Erik Johnson has been a complete disappointment fantasy-wise.
    But he'll be leaned on even more this year.

    Some of the big COL defensemen are gone.
    Zanon was bought out.
    O'Byrne went to TOR.
    Hunwick was cut.

    EJ is going to have to eat big ES & SH ice-time with COL rostering smaller (PP) players like Barrie & Elliott.

    I see Erik Johnson as a very nice player to emerge in a league like this HIT/BLK/TOI.

    2) Joni Pitkanen is a top two ice-time eater in Carolina. He plays 23min/game when healthy.
    However, he doesn't HIT or BLK... and I'd ask for an upgrade on that part of the offer. Maybe if you can get Marc Staal in his place.
    Get PITKANEN out of the trade, tell him you aren't interested.

    3) I'm personally VERY high on Mikko Koivu.
    I think a healthy M.Koivu, playing with Z.Parise & Pominville can put up 75pts with the same sort of PPP, +/-, HIT, BLK, and TOI as Spezza.
    I honestly think we haven't seen a career season from M.Koivu yet... even at age 30, I think he could "Sedin us".

    So I would agree "small downgrade".

    IMO, if you can get M.Koivu + EJ (23min/game D) AND M.Staal (23min/game D), then you really consider this trade.
    Last edited by Pengwin7; August 1, 2013 at 10:30 AM.

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    spezza is better than koivu by a lot more than pitkinen/staal. maybe try to move koivu for a legitimate defenseman as its probably easier to grab a decent center of the ww.
    10 team Full Keeper Roto League
    4C-4LW-4RW-6D-2G-5bench-unlimited farm.

    C= crosby,m.koivu,malkin,hopkins,bozak
    LW= ovechkin,dubinsky,gaborik,benn
    RW= callahan,voracek,perry,brouwer,wheeler
    D= green,doughty,phaneuf,girardi,karlsson,russell
    G= lundqvist,ward,price,elliot

    FARM under250gp=kreider,grachev,kuznetsov,rundblad,bjug stad,radulov,montoya,yakupov,adam,t.erixon,cowan,e lliot,cormier,petrov,orlov,stone,silfverberg,brodi n,atkinson,paajarvi,Nichushkin,mantha,jenner,lovej oy,garbutt,Bachman,hertl,severson,r.boucher,tuch,k .hayes,demko,grubauer,dansk,lee,pouliot,strome,mci llrath

    --G,A,P,PPP,SHP,GWG,PIMS,+/-,SOG,hits,FOW,blocks-Wins,GAA,SV%,saves,SO

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    Which of the following play 70 games this year? I wonder the odds?

    - Spezza 50/50
    - Koivu 60/40
    - Pitkanen 35/65
    - EJ 60/40
    - Staal 65/35

    I wouldn't be surpised that Ceci took a few years to become NHL relevant. Sometimes guys like come on very quickly... I lean strongly towards the take time theory. AHL for a year. Split AHL/NHL for a year. NHL. Finally rounds into a prominent role.

    Lindholm is a VERY high draft pick, but a bit tricky to get a good read on coming off a 1 goal AHL season. Neither appears poised to become Fantasy main stays this coming year.

    Spezza could finish top 10 in the NHL in scoring... if healthy..

    Koivu could finish top 20 in the NHL scoring... if healthy... Scorers in Minny look promising for the 20/25 goal man.

    Pitkanen could average 1/2 a point a game.

    EJ... pretty hard to be excited at this moment. He is coming nicely into his early prime though. Excellent opportunity in Colorado.

    Staal likely to bounce back to 30-35 point ways. Great full ice D-man.

    If you can anticipate the health issues!

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    Some great post here. I think Pengwin is nailing the fact that this league set up isn't standard. Hits/Blocks/TOI are very important cats. Still really on the fence with this though. Spezza could be in for a huge year, and there are plenty of risks with the guys coming back.

    I could certainly try something like:

    Spezza + Lindholm for Koivu, M Staal, E Johnson, T Johnson

    Perhaps that would be the best combo/only one worth considering. Pitkanen has been decent in previous years though in this format (better than EJ).
    WHL - Halifax Krakens

    C - Backstrom, Zetterberg, Plekanec, Dubinsky, Thompson
    LW - Landeskog, E. Staal, Steen, Marchand, Berglund, Tanguay
    RW - Atkinson, Eriksson, Stempniak, Shaw, Comeau
    D - Hedman, Goligoski, Demers, Beaulieu, Kulikov, C. Murphy, Seidenberg, Holden
    G - Quick
    IR - Berra, Wisniewski
    Prospects - Demko, Samuelsson, Labanc, Stolarz, Hickett, Marchenko, Lessio, Backman, Vladar

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    I would probably stand pat here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GretzkysMullet View Post
    Some great post here. I think Pengwin is nailing the fact that this league set up isn't standard. Hits/Blocks/TOI are very important cats. Still really on the fence with this though. Spezza could be in for a huge year, and there are plenty of risks with the guys coming back.

    I could certainly try something like:

    Spezza + Lindholm for Koivu, M Staal, E Johnson, T Johnson

    Perhaps that would be the best combo/only one worth considering. Pitkanen has been decent in previous years though in this format (better than EJ).
    Taking out Pitkanen and replacing with M Staal or E Johnson, and downgrading from Ceci to Lindholm, makes this deal more palative from my side. But I would still see if you could get EJ or Staal for a prospect.

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