View Poll Results: Nichushkin vs Toffoli (keeper league pts only)

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  • Nichushkin

    26 47.27%
  • Toffoli

    29 52.73%
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Thread: Nichushkin vs Toffoli

  1. #1
    GelFlow's Avatar
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    Default Nichushkin vs Toffoli

    In a keeper league in a pts only format who would you rather own ?

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    I went with Toffoli. His mercurial rise to the NHL was matched with production at every level. I think he has scorer written as much all over him as every stat sheet he's been a part of.

    Plus, he don't speak no Russian, he don't come from Russia, he ain't going to Russia and that has to be a factor now to me, as much as I hate that it is...

    In all seriousness, I believe that while "upside" could be a toss-up, the "likely" falls squarely in Toffoli land.
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    Tanguay(Ij), Weiss, Grabovski, Toffoli, P.Berglund, Hemsky, Ribeiro, Killorn, B.Connolly, M.Richards, Timonen, Vatanen, S. Elliott, Mason, C.Ward

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    Nichu easy, and if these boards are going to start being a constant hate on Russians based on one or arguably two players I'm going to have to leave them. Absolutely ridiculous. Yea, you should take Stephen Weiss over Datsyuk because Datsyuk is Russian too. Toffoli hasn't proven anything NHL-wise, will get less opportunity, less PP-time, worse linemates, far more low scoring and defensive system. Probably lower talent too.
    Last edited by rataylor22; July 16, 2013 at 1:32 AM.
    12 Team Keeper, Keep 17, Keepers,
    Roster: 4C, 3RW, 3LW, 5D, 2U, 3B, 3IR, 4G (Start 2)
    Stats: G(3), A(2), +/-, PIM(0.5), PPP(2), SHP(3), GWG(2), SOG (0.1), HITS(0.1), BLKS(0.2), W(3), OTL (1), GA(-1), SV(0.2), SO(3)

    C: Crosby, Seguin (C/RW), Pavelski (C/RW), Datsyuk, Nugent-Hopkins, Bonino, Zajac
    LW: Parise, Benn (LW/C), Hall, Skinner, Toffoli (RW/LW/C)
    RW: Perry, Wheeler, Hemsky, Bennett
    D: Doughty, Kronwall, Byfuglien, Josi
    G: Schneider, Hiller, Andersen, Lack
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    Nich is the logical choice. He has all the tools to be a first line player.

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    It's close for me but I'd go with Nichushkin.
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    I'd say its close. However, if your league drafts by position I'd take Toffoli based on LW eligibility. Premium LW are gold and my guess is he's likely landing beside Kopitar before end of 2014/2015.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rataylor22 View Post
    Nichu easy, and if these boards are going to start being a constant hate on Russians based on one or arguably two players I'm going to have to leave them. Absolutely ridiculous. Yea, you should take Stephen Weiss over Datsyuk because Datsyuk is Russian too. Toffoli hasn't proven anything NHL-wise, will get less opportunity, less PP-time, worse linemates, far more low scoring and defensive system. Probably lower talent too.
    I don't think there's anything wrong with opting for a non-Russian when the talents are close. Much of what you're saying here is ludicrous.

    "Toffoli hasn't proven anything NHL-wise" = He's got 22 games under his belt and has pretty respectable totals to kick things off (on a Cup-calibre team). What's "Nichu" done in the show?

    "...will get less opportunity" = Toffoli's 12 playoff games last season say otherwise

    "...less PP time" = he was getting PP2 time in his rookie year. What rationale do you have for thinking he won't get more? Or the same as Nichushkin? Again, Nichushkin hasn't even made the team yet.

    "worse linemates" = Last time I checked, the Kings weren't half bad. And the Stars...well...
    Also, Toffoli played some shifts with Richards and Kopitar. Nichushkin hasn't done a thing yet.

    "far more low scoring and defensive system" = take a look -- the Kings outscored the Stars last season.


    You can choose Nichushkin over Toffoli because you think he's a better player--if Toffoli didn't get NHL time last year, I'd agree with you-- but you're ridiculous if you criticize someone else for opting for a player who is close, but playing closer to home.

    "In 2003-04, there were 64 Russians in the NHL, according to the IIHF. Last season, that number was nearly cut in half, with only 34 Russians playing in North America with NHL teams.

    "We're a little more cautious on the Russian players now because they have the option of staying in the KHL," Carolina GM Jim Rutherford said in a recent interview.

    "Because of the KHL, for the past two or three years, we haven't really been in the Russian market," added Detroit GM Ken Holland."

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/previe...ott&id=5631851

    If NHL GMs are reluctant to draft/sign Russian players, then it's completely fair for Fantasy GMs to do the same. Your Datsyuk/Weiss comparison was silly -- those two players aren't in the same ballpark. Oh, and Datsyuk did entertain thoughts of going to the KHL during the lockout.

    The reality is that the Russian players have a very well-paid, fairly well-established league that serves as competition. If all else is equal, that's a pretty legit determining factor to consider when picking a guy. Get off your high horse.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by rataylor22 View Post
    Nichu easy, and if these boards are going to start being a constant hate on Russians based on one or arguably two players I'm going to have to leave them. Absolutely ridiculous. Yea, you should take Stephen Weiss over Datsyuk because Datsyuk is Russian too. Toffoli hasn't proven anything NHL-wise, will get less opportunity, less PP-time, worse linemates, far more low scoring and defensive system. Probably lower talent too.
    Makes no sense. Datsyuk is an established NHLer with a contract. Russian prospects are extremely risky and it's not hating on them, it's called dealing with reality.

    That said this poll is easy for me, as I don't think highly of Toffoli.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GelFlow View Post
    In a keeper league in a pts only format who would you rather own ?
    If the Russian kid finds himself on a line with Benn and Seguin, I'd find that hard to pass up. I'd take my chances with the Russian + he's a winger in our league. Toffoli is a center which are easier to draft.

    Toffoli's stats both in the regular season and playoffs are pretty good though for a 21 year old (.50 ppg in each).


    Points only keeper League, weekly head to head, 2RW, 2LW, 2C, 4D, 1 G , (goalies 2pts for W +3 for SO)




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    C: Seguin, Huberdeau, Grabovski, Schenn

    RW: Eberle, Tarasenko, Ryan

    D: Carlson, Ekman-Larsson, Krug, Hamonic, Leddy, Brodin

    G: Price , Thomas

  10. #10
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    STONE, +1 to you for expressing every thought I had in my head.

    This isn't about Russian bashing or anything like that. My post may have made it seem worse or whatever but my comments were made in jest to express the general trend of the hockey landscape and the fact that if Russian players under inked contracts can leave for Russia, then prospects 18 years of age who are thrown MILLIONS of dollars to play at home can certainly go too.

    In my mind, I still believe Toffoli to be the better choice. His stats speak for themselves and he has really impressed at the NHL level so far, including playing (and scoring) in important playoff games for the defending Stanley Cup champions, as a rookie. That's more than Nichushkin has shown.

    I also disagree with your comment regarding the linemates. The Kings are a far better team and much deeper than the Stars. Ice time is not everything and carrying a weaker team and/or playing heavy minutes on it won't necessarily translate to higher point totals. Toffoli having the chance to play with the likes of Richards, Carter and Kopitar is in my mind at least equal to, if not better than Nichushkin playing with the likes of Benn and Seguin, that is, if Nichushkin makes the team.

    I vote Toffoli because I think he is a legit star in the making, is very underrated and is less likely to carry the risk of playing in a top hockey league that is not the NHL. The choice is not that bananas.. And Nichushkin has not proven anything in the top two leagues in North America yet.. So careful where you toss the "proven" word around...

    Leave the Boards if you want rataylor... but it won't be me who asked you to leave... Sorry if the comments were a bit too strong. Those who know me around these parts know that xenophobia is not my game. Sorry if I offended you. I did hint that I was kidding, but it may not have been enough. Anyway, in the current context, I see myself favouring Russian prospects a bit less. A case of risk management for me, but heck, fantasy hockey is pretty much betting, so bet on Nichu if you like. Just stating that I won't...
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    Chara, Karlsson, Zidlicky, Wisniewski, Subban, Ehrhoff
    Rinne, Rask
    Tanguay(Ij), Weiss, Grabovski, Toffoli, P.Berglund, Hemsky, Ribeiro, Killorn, B.Connolly, M.Richards, Timonen, Vatanen, S. Elliott, Mason, C.Ward

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    I like Toffoli but Nichushkin is on another level.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rataylor22 View Post
    Nichu easy, and if these boards are going to start being a constant hate on Russians based on one or arguably two players I'm going to have to leave them. Absolutely ridiculous. Yea, you should take Stephen Weiss over Datsyuk because Datsyuk is Russian too. Toffoli hasn't proven anything NHL-wise, will get less opportunity, less PP-time, worse linemates, far more low scoring and defensive system. Probably lower talent too.
    What's ridiculous, and hilarious, is getting offended by something on a fantasy hockey forum and threatening to "leave the boards".

    Fact of the matter is there are less Russians playing in the NHL these days, and yeah, people are going to be cautious based on Radulov/Kovalchuk. If you asked a Kovalchuk owner to choose between Nichushkin and Toffoli, do you not think that the so-called "Russian Factor" would play into their decision?

    Not sure how you can automatically assume that Nichushkin will have better linemates/opportunity/PP time either. I realize that a top six role is his for the taking, but if he doesn't have a decent camp then the Stars aren't going to overlook that and just hand him a spot on the top line and top PP unit. NHL teams don't operate on the basis of fantasy hockey, players need to earn their spots and there aren't freebies.

    Kings are extremely happy with Toffoli's development, and while this is a very tough choice, I would select him before Nichushkin. Russian Factor isn't a consideration for me. I evaluate players by watching them play first and foremost, stats are given a bit of consideration as well, but not too much. News articles and bloggers cranking up the hype machine for every first round pick have no impact on my decision-making process
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    Stone nailed it. Frankly rataylor, your comments border on ridiculous. As a fantasy owner of Radulov, Kuznetsov and most recently, Kovalchuk, I treat Russians now with a skepticism that I don't consider with ANY other nationality. It's not "hatred", it's being practical. I think you are doing yourself a disservice by NOT taking "The Russian Factor" into consideration.

    Nobody is saying that you should take Horcoff over Ovechkin because OV might bolt to the KHL, but if they are close in level of talent, why take the risk?

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    Great poll and one of the best X vs Y questions I've seen here. I'll take Toffoli only for the birth certificate. Close!
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  15. #15
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    Ill take Toffoli most under rated prospect around here 2 years ago, finally starting to get some love!
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