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    Default keeper question

    12 Team Y! H2H, keep 13, daily changes
    Roster Positions: 3 C, 3 LW, 3 RW, 4 D, 2 G, 5 BN, 2 IR
    Stat Categories: G, A, +/-, PIM, PPP, SOG, Hits, BS, W, GAA, SV, SV%

    C: Getzlaf, Plekanec, B. Richards, Stastny
    LW: Nash, Duchene, Eriksson, Prust
    RW: Perry, Doan, J. Williams, Havlat, Downie
    D: Letang, Ekman-Larsson, Carlson, Franson, Staal
    G: Hiller, Schneider, Lindback, Hutton

    5Farm: Lehner (25) Elliott (57) Toffoli (10) Zibanejad (51) Fasth (25)

    Note1: Farm protected for all of next season regardless of games played can also call up and send down.

    Note2: I get to protect 14 this season for winning consolation playoff bracket.

    Note3: We have a 2 round prospect draft this coming Sunday and shortly thereafter need to declare keepers - with the waiver draft in the fall. I pick 10th overall in both rounds.

    Questions:

    Should I bother with the prospect draft? If so, what/who should I be looking at drafting and dropping?

    After the draft, which other 6 players should I protect? Trades don't seem to be happening in the league, Lindback is on the block for a 2nd round waiver pick and not a sniff - he is no longer farm eligible.

    Want to help some very poor people? Go to this thread and find out more about it. http://forums.dobbersports.com/showthread.php?t=153407
    Last edited by Shoeless; July 3, 2013 at 8:07 AM.

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    What number is your pick in the prospect pool, which Elliot is that? (Stefan?)

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    Quote Originally Posted by rataylor22 View Post
    What number is your pick in the prospect pool, which Elliot is that? (Stefan?)
    I pick 10th out of 12 - yes it is Stefan.

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    Hmmm. At 10, I don't see there being much available in terms of players that would be better than guys you already have on your farm. As for your other 6, I would say probably Richards, Plekanec, Williams, Franson for sure. Then pick 2 of Downie, Doan, and Carlson.

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    I think these should be your 14 (Downie will be draftable due to his injury woes in the recent years if you still want him IMO)

    C: Getzlaf, B. Richards, Stastny
    LW: Nash, Duchene, Eriksson
    RW: Perry, Doan
    D: Letang, Ekman-Larsson, Carlson, Franson
    G: Hiller, Schneider


    As for your prospect choice, picking 10th will land you one of the following players:
    Horvat, Shinkaruk, Fucale, Wennberg... I prefer them all to Elliott (plus you are stacked with your 4 great young D's)
    Keeper league 14 teams (H2H, 20 active players keep 16 NHLers, 16 minors)
    Scoring Cats: G-A-PTS-PPG-PPA-(+/-)-HITS-BLK-SHP-SOG-FOW-GWG / W-L-SVS-SV%-GAA-SO

    C- Crosby, Barzal, Bennett, Schmaltz, Novak
    W- Forsberg, Batherson, Nichuskin, Tuch, Konecny, Maccelli, Sharangovich, Bertuzzi, Kaliyev, Neighbours, Reichel
    D- Carlson, Rielly, Klingberg
    G- Hellebuyck, Demko, Merzlikins, Vejmelka

    Minors:
    F: Fantilli, Cooley, Bourgault, Perreault, Cowan, Ohgren, N. Foote, Goyette, Iskhakov, Denisenko, Tracey
    D: Simashev, Willander, Lambos
    G: Schmidt, Rodrigue, DiPietro, Gaudreau, McKay

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    Quote Originally Posted by rataylor22 View Post
    Hmmm. At 10, I don't see there being much available in terms of players that would be better than guys you already have on your farm. As for your other 6, I would say probably Richards, Plekanec, Williams, Franson for sure. Then pick 2 of Downie, Doan, and Carlson.
    Alrighty - skipping the draft - because I was thinking pretty much the same thing.

    I find it hard to let go of Stastny but I fear you are correct. Too much goalie depth to consider protecting Lindback I think. I'm happy enough to hang onto 4 D and then I won't be drafting another and certainly not a C early. Williams makes sense as I am a little short at RW.

    Interestingly my debaters came down to Downie, Doan and Stastny for a last spot, as I looked at this awhile back - doesn't look like you see it much different.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bass56 View Post
    I think these should be your 14 (Downie will be draftable due to his injury woes in the recent years if you still want him IMO)

    C: Getzlaf, B. Richards, Stastny
    LW: Nash, Duchene, Eriksson
    RW: Perry, Doan
    D: Letang, Ekman-Larsson, Carlson, Franson
    G: Hiller, Schneider


    As for your prospect choice, picking 10th will land you one of the following players:
    Horvat, Shinkaruk, Fucale, Wennberg... I prefer them all to Elliott (plus you are stacked with your 4 great young D's)
    Well I must admit I considered using that first rounder for either Shinkaruk or Fucale (but I am pretty deep in goal so likely a winger is better) as I think they will be available and dumping Elliott (although I haven't given up on him just yet)

    So tell me why you would keep Stastny over Plekanec?

    Why Doan over Williams although I think that one is very close?

    Actually I do like Downie for this season - but think you are right - not a keeper here.
    Last edited by Shoeless; July 3, 2013 at 9:34 AM.

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    Yea, I prefer Williams to Doan as he is younger (which is really more a comment that Doan is old) and on a much better and more offensive team.

    If Lindback was the clear cut starter I think he would be worth keeping, but I don't even see him getting the majority of the starts. Probably like 65% Bishop, 35% Lindback.

    I like Downie but as Bass said, he could be easily redraftable due to his recent injury history. I'm really not a fan of Doan at all. Aging guy in a defensive system.

    The problem I have with Stastny is even with what Roy said his lines would be, I don't see it. Mackinnon is too good, he will force his way on to line 2 by probably the midpoint of the season (IMO), and we saw what Stastny did from the third line last year, and it's not like that was Stastny's first bad campaign that can just be blamed on the lockout.

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    +6
    C: Plek, B-Rich, Stastny
    RW: Doan, J.Will
    G: Lindback

    I'm keeping Lindback just because your league has SV.
    I don't keep marginal defenseman because I think there is more value in just drafting a D-man for PIM/HIT/BLK and streaming then in throughout the year on a schedule-based advantage.
    (I did this in RHRS, rolled with a bare-minimum of D, no bench D, and just rostered them based on schedule density. If you check my standings, I did pretty damn good in PIM/HIT/BLK.)

    As for the prospect draft, I think if you can find a dedicated PIM/HIT guy to stash on your farm, that could be very helpful to winning some H2H match-ups.

    I'd go with a forward, as most rookie defensemen have no fantasy value in their first couple years. I don't really know which prospects are great in PIM/HIT.

    Last year, there was a kid named Lukas Sutter who went 2nd round to WPG. If you can take any prospect, he might be available. If he cracks the Jets line-up this year, he could be that 3rd/4th line PIM/Hit monster.
    Toffoli looks like a good offensive player, but I don't think he'll PIM or HIT and in a league of this depth... I don't see him having any significant fantasy value.
    I may be inclined to drop him from your prospects as I don't see a 40pt player being worth anything if they can't contribute PIM or HIT, at least.
    Last edited by Pengwin7; July 3, 2013 at 9:41 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoeless View Post
    Well I must admit I considered using that first rounder for either Shinkaruk or Fucale (but I am pretty deep in goal so likely a winger is better) as I think they will be available and dumping Elliott (although I haven't given up on him just yet)

    So tell me why you would keep Stastny over Plekanec?

    Why Doan over Williams although I think that one is very close?

    Actually I do like Downie for this season - but think you are right - not a keeper here.
    I prefer Stastny over Plekanec because I am from Montreal and I go see the Habs play quite regularly. Plekanec is one of my favorite players but he is not the best point-getter. I feel he is one of the best on the ice every night but he has so many responsibilities that goal scoring comes second. He is also the center that usually hovers with wingers that are struggling so he doesn't always get the best scoring opportunities.
    As for Stastny, he has proven in the past that he can be a 70pt player. He showed flashes of what he was at the world championships this year and Colorado is just getting better as a team. Also, as an intangible, let's not forget that he lost his captain status last year to a younger player... that has to play on the his morale. I think he should be over it by now and should resume being the player we once knew him to be, on the Avalanche or somewhere else.

    Doan's pick was easy because of the multi-cat aspect. I do prefer Williams as a point getter, but his random injury issues and his lack of PIMS, BS and HITS just make Doan the better selection IMO.

    Hope this helps
    Keeper league 14 teams (H2H, 20 active players keep 16 NHLers, 16 minors)
    Scoring Cats: G-A-PTS-PPG-PPA-(+/-)-HITS-BLK-SHP-SOG-FOW-GWG / W-L-SVS-SV%-GAA-SO

    C- Crosby, Barzal, Bennett, Schmaltz, Novak
    W- Forsberg, Batherson, Nichuskin, Tuch, Konecny, Maccelli, Sharangovich, Bertuzzi, Kaliyev, Neighbours, Reichel
    D- Carlson, Rielly, Klingberg
    G- Hellebuyck, Demko, Merzlikins, Vejmelka

    Minors:
    F: Fantilli, Cooley, Bourgault, Perreault, Cowan, Ohgren, N. Foote, Goyette, Iskhakov, Denisenko, Tracey
    D: Simashev, Willander, Lambos
    G: Schmidt, Rodrigue, DiPietro, Gaudreau, McKay

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pengwin7 View Post
    +6
    C: Plek, B-Rich, Stastny
    RW: Doan, J.Will
    G: Lindback

    I'm keeping Lindback just because your league has SV.
    I don't keep marginal defenseman because I think there is more value in just drafting a D-man for PIM/HIT/BLK and streaming then in throughout the year on a schedule-based advantage.
    (I did this in RHRS, rolled with a bare-minimum of D, no bench D, and just rostered them based on schedule density. If you check my standings, I did pretty damn good in PIM/HIT/BLK.)

    As for the prospect draft, I think if you can find a dedicated PIM/HIT guy to stash on your farm, that could be very helpful to winning some H2H match-ups.

    I'd go with a forward, as most rookie defensemen have no fantasy value in their first couple years. I don't really know which prospects are great in PIM/HIT.

    Last year, there was a kid named Lukas Sutter who went 2nd round to WPG. If you can take any prospect, he might be available. If he cracks the Jets line-up this year, he could be that 3rd/4th line PIM/Hit monster.
    Toffoli looks like a good offensive player, but I don't think he'll PIM or HIT and in a league of this depth... I don't see him having any significant fantasy value.
    I may be inclined to drop him from your prospects as I don't see a 40pt player being worth anything if they can't contribute PIM or HIT, at least.
    I only have 4 skaters on my team that produced more composite value than Franson or Carlson last season. Most guys in the league do as you do so the early draft often has them hunting D guys, while I can pick off some good depth wingers - so to some extent strategic to keep Carlson and Franson - they aren't marginal in this league - ranked 17th and 9th respectively for this league among D men.

    Lindback is a tough keep but I see your point - the thing that niggles just a bit here with him is the what if he grabs the #1? Goalies are valuable assets in this league.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bass56 View Post
    I prefer Stastny over Plekanec because I am from Montreal and I go see the Habs play quite regularly. Plekanec is one of my favorite players but he is not the best point-getter. I feel he is one of the best on the ice every night but he has so many responsibilities that goal scoring comes second. He is also the center that usually hovers with wingers that are struggling so he doesn't always get the best scoring opportunities.
    As for Stastny, he has proven in the past that he can be a 70pt player. He showed flashes of what he was at the world championships this year and Colorado is just getting better as a team. Also, as an intangible, let's not forget that he lost his captain status last year to a younger player... that has to play on the his morale. I think he should be over it by now and should resume being the player we once knew him to be, on the Avalanche or somewhere else.

    Doan's pick was easy because of the multi-cat aspect. I do prefer Williams as a point getter, but his random injury issues and his lack of PIMS, BS and HITS just make Doan the better selection IMO.

    Hope this helps
    Took a closer look and I see the Plekanec - Stastny thing - I wonder if Galyenchuk starts to grab more ice time as well.

    On balance I think I need points over grit with the keepers I have don't you? I give a small lean to Williams but have owned Doan in most of my leagues for what seems like forever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoeless View Post
    Carlson and Franson - they aren't marginal in this league - ranked 17th and 9th respectively for this league among D men.
    Well... the numbers are the numbers... but if you looked at the actual scores of all the players... it's more about "what it takes" to be ranked that high.

    Effin Beauchemin ranks as the 7th best D-man... but is anybody keeping him?
    Mark Fraser ranks as the 12th best D-man... but is anybody keeping him?

    By category scores & ranks - I won't disagree with you.
    But these guys are simply "redraftable". Big PIM/HIT/BLK D-men emerge every year. There was a stretch of the year where Stephane Robidas & Brendan Dillon were playing as top 10 fantasy defenseman.

    Also, if you can grab a "90pt score" D-man for a 12 game-stretch (in 20 nights), that is as valuable as a "120pt score" D-man for a 9 game-stretch (in 20 nights).

    And D-men are much, much easier to stream in/out by schedule density then are "top 20" forwards (who are always taken).

    If EVERY GM in your league understands real defenseman value... then I'd agree with that Franson/Carlson might need to be keepers... but from my experience, 90% of fantasy GMs don't have a flipping clue about the REAL fantasy value in PIM/HIT/BLK.

    Your call... you saw what I did in RHRS by mastering those cats through my D-men strategy. I didn't draft a single D-man in that league until the last 5 rounds of the draft.

    Just tryin' to help...
    (see attached spreadsheet for category scores. Your software probably generates values similar to mine.)
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoeless View Post
    Took a closer look and I see the Plekanec - Stastny thing - I wonder if Galyenchuk starts to grab more ice time as well.

    On balance I think I need points over grit with the keepers I have don't you? I give a small lean to Williams but have owned Doan in most of my leagues for what seems like forever.
    For sure he will but I do not think as a center; at least not this year.

    I think Montreal's top 3 lines will look like this baring any major trades or signings:

    1) Max Pac-Desharnais-FREE AGENT
    2) Bourque-Plekanec-Gionta
    3) Galchenyuk-Eller-Gallagher

    That being said, I have a good feeling that the 3rd line will slip into the 2nd line slot fairly early in the year...

    As for the other choice, I like Williams and his situation in L.A. but if I have to choose between him and Doan for the next 3 years or so, I think Doan will have a steady contribution that will be close in terms of points but superior in other areas. If you need the points, I do agree with Pengwin about his views on defenseman. A 30 point d-man is easier to find than a 60 point forward. With this logic, you might be better off keeping Williams instead of Franson. I still think the kid is special and I think that Doan is a must keeper so you can flip a coin for Williams vs Franson.


    With no loses counted, Lindback is interesting as well, but I don't like his situation in Tampa and I do not think that management sees him as the ''solution'' either. Therefore, I personally would not keep him over any other player listed previously.
    Keeper league 14 teams (H2H, 20 active players keep 16 NHLers, 16 minors)
    Scoring Cats: G-A-PTS-PPG-PPA-(+/-)-HITS-BLK-SHP-SOG-FOW-GWG / W-L-SVS-SV%-GAA-SO

    C- Crosby, Barzal, Bennett, Schmaltz, Novak
    W- Forsberg, Batherson, Nichuskin, Tuch, Konecny, Maccelli, Sharangovich, Bertuzzi, Kaliyev, Neighbours, Reichel
    D- Carlson, Rielly, Klingberg
    G- Hellebuyck, Demko, Merzlikins, Vejmelka

    Minors:
    F: Fantilli, Cooley, Bourgault, Perreault, Cowan, Ohgren, N. Foote, Goyette, Iskhakov, Denisenko, Tracey
    D: Simashev, Willander, Lambos
    G: Schmidt, Rodrigue, DiPietro, Gaudreau, McKay

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pengwin7 View Post
    Well... the numbers are the numbers... but if you looked at the actual scores of all the players... it's more about "what it takes" to be ranked that high.

    Effin Beauchemin ranks as the 7th best D-man... but is anybody keeping him?
    Mark Fraser ranks as the 12th best D-man... but is anybody keeping him?

    By category scores & ranks - I won't disagree with you.
    But these guys are simply "redraftable". Big PIM/HIT/BLK D-men emerge every year. There was a stretch of the year where Stephane Robidas & Brendan Dillon were playing as top 10 fantasy defenseman.

    Also, if you can grab a "90pt score" D-man for a 12 game-stretch (in 20 nights), that is as valuable as a "120pt score" D-man for a 9 game-stretch (in 20 nights).

    And D-men are much, much easier to stream in/out by schedule density then are "top 20" forwards (who are always taken).

    If EVERY GM in your league understands real defenseman value... then I'd agree with that Franson/Carlson might need to be keepers... but from my experience, 90% of fantasy GMs don't have a flipping clue about the REAL fantasy value in PIM/HIT/BLK.

    Your call... you saw what I did in RHRS by mastering those cats through my D-men strategy. I didn't draft a single D-man in that league until the last 5 rounds of the draft.

    Just tryin' to help...
    (see attached spreadsheet for category scores. Your software probably generates values similar to mine.)
    Actually I am quite aware of the stats in RHRS

    You claimed 13 points in PIMS to my 12, your 12 points to my 13 in hits and pulled away in blks with 14 points to my 10 (a breath away from 12).

    In this league, the guys are pretty sharp, I don't think Carlson and Franson are redraftable because they won't make it back to me at 10th and 20th - not both of them and their production beyond grit is important to balance my team. Plekanec would for sure, I think Doan as well - not sure about Lindback because the league hordes goalies but with Hiller, Fasth, Schneider and Lehner, I stuggle to see the value in Lindback if Bishop stands in front of him and we won't know that early enough to make a call for my keepers.

    Any way it's all grist for the mill - I had hoped to keep Lindback on the farm but he snuck over the games limit by 2.

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