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Thread: Rebuilding Dynasty - Need Advice on Strategy, Goalie

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    Default Rebuilding Dynasty - Need Advice on Strategy, Goalie

    I recently took over a basement team in a 12-team dynasty league. I've got to do a significant rebuild, but I haven't done dynasty before and am having trouble gauging player values.

    My current situation in goal is Miller / Luongo, with no one in the pipeline. I think I can get Elliot as a FA for when he performs, but I'd like to be solid in goal.

    My main bargaining chips are St Louis, Ladd, Suter, Kopitar, and 2nd Overall Pick. I need to move St Louis since I'm not at all a contender and I think he should have value to a win-now team.

    My roster is short after releasing a bunch of players and I'll be making some acquisitions in FA.

    Any advice on what I should do? I am looking to build around Kopitar and Suter, but I'm prepared to move anyone. I don't intend to be competitive this year or next, so I'd like to get a lot of youth in the system. My main goal right now is to acquire a goalie and work from there.


    Format is:
    Players: 4C 4L 4R 6D 2G 5B; 25 farm
    Offense: G, A, +/-, PIM, PPP, SHP, SOG
    Goalies: W, SV%, GAA, SHO

    My team is:
    Forwards
    Anze Kopitar
    Vincent Lecavalier
    Patrik Berglund
    Mikael Backlund
    Mike Richards
    Andrew Ladd
    Jiri Hudler
    Martin St. Louis
    Chris Stewart

    Defencemen
    Ryan Suter
    Dan Hamhuis
    Niklas Hjalmarsson
    Dmitri Orlov

    Goalies
    Roberto Luongo
    Ryan Miller

    Notable Prospects
    Mikael Backlund
    David Rundblad
    Brendan Gaunce
    Morgan Rielly

    Picks
    2nd, 14th 15th 26th 36th
    12 Team H2H Full Keeper 4C,4LW,4RW,6D,2G,5B
    G,A,PPP,SOG,SHP,+/-,PIMS / W,SVP,GA,SHO

    C: Getzlaf, Kopitar, Stepan, Couture, Perreault, Ribeiro
    LW: Ladd, Kreider
    RW: Nash, Wilson, J Williams, T. Johnson
    D: Hedman, Green, Suter, Leddy, Sekera, Stalman, Hamonic
    G: Quick, Bishop

    Prospects: A. Lee, S. Reinhart, A. Killorn, D. Nurse, M. Jones

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    I'd like to make a trade for Holtby and Tarasenko. Their owner is top 3 and should be in win-now mode. His team is pretty stacked with young talent. I'd like to move St Louis + in the trade. What would be a good starting offer? St Louis + Mike Richards?

    His team:
    Forwards
    Adam Henrique
    Kyle Turris
    Nazem Kadri
    Peter Mueller
    John Tavares
    Pavel Datsyuk
    Kris Versteeg
    Evander Kane
    Mason Raymond
    Tyler Ennis
    Taylor Hall
    Patrick Kane
    Blake Wheeler
    Drew Stafford
    Devin Setoguchi
    Ryan Callahan

    Defencemen
    Alexander Edler
    Zach Bogosian D
    Justin Faulk
    Jack Johnson
    Mark Giordano

    Goalies
    Sergei Bobrovsky
    Jimmy Howard

    Notable Prospects
    Jonathan Huberdeau
    Mark Scheifele
    Vladimir Tarasenko
    Braden Holtby
    Kyle Palmieri
    12 Team H2H Full Keeper 4C,4LW,4RW,6D,2G,5B
    G,A,PPP,SOG,SHP,+/-,PIMS / W,SVP,GA,SHO

    C: Getzlaf, Kopitar, Stepan, Couture, Perreault, Ribeiro
    LW: Ladd, Kreider
    RW: Nash, Wilson, J Williams, T. Johnson
    D: Hedman, Green, Suter, Leddy, Sekera, Stalman, Hamonic
    G: Quick, Bishop

    Prospects: A. Lee, S. Reinhart, A. Killorn, D. Nurse, M. Jones

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    The 2nd overall pick will be either MacKinnon or Drouin for you... in this format.
    Hopefully you get Drouin, because your team could use wingers.

    Miller & Lu both had poor seasons.
    I don't think you'll get good return for them right now.
    So - I'd say "hold" on both and wait for a hot streak.

    As soon as either switches teams, they'll have HUGE trade value.
    (It always happens when a guy switches teams. Don't sell them before then. Wait for the new jersey and then shop them immediately).

    Yes - Martin St.Louis is your best bargaining chip.
    I'd look to move him (+ somebody) for an emerging LW.

    Ovechkin, Semin, Kovalchuk, and James Neal are all guys who were LW/RW in many leagues last year but played only RW. If fantasy websites start those guys as RW next season, it will really THIN out the quality of LWers.

    My LW ranks, for multi-cat:
    1. D.Sedin (too old for your team)
    2. Parise (probably too old for your team)
    3. T.Hall
    4. E.Kane
    5. Bobby Ryan

    I'd be looking at going after either Taylor Hall or Evander Kane. I'm not sure if either can be had cheap but you may be able to package MSL + somebody like Ladd.

    Ladd is a nice player, but if you are building for 3 years down the road... you have to be realistic about where he'll be in 3 years (he's 27 now, he'd be 30 then).

    Also - consider shopping Lecavalier to the guy with the #1 pick.
    Here's why... it may tell you if he's leaning towards taking Drouin. Most people with the #1 overall pick will take the guy with best fantasy upside (Drouin). If the draft goes Jones/MacK/Drouin, then Drouin lands in TB which gives Lecavalier some "perceived value" to the Drouin owner.

    So... ask the guy with the #1 overall pick if he has any interest in Lecavalier.
    From the reply, you might be able to gauge how he intends to use that #1 overall pick and what you can do with your #2 overall pick AND/OR Vinny.

    Good luck.

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    I would encourage you to keep your 2nd overall pick, especially because you are in a major rebuild.. You are guaranteed Mackinnon or Drouin, that is a fantastic start to your rebuild..

    If this was the case for my team, I would write down all the available goalies onto a piece of paper. Then write down the teams that have goalies to spare, write those goalies down aswell. I would then look at some goalies that are backups right now but look to becoming starters in the near future. Guys like Bernier, Enroth, Lehner, even Khudobin etc..Then make a list of guys you want to target, and you should have a good plan going forward..

    If it was me, I would trade guys like Miller and Luongo for future studs, like Markstrom, Lehner, etc.. I would also see what you can get for Ladd, you can definitely sell high on him.. Then you should also see if anyone is willing to take a chance on Lecavalier.. Maybe look at shopping Richards and Hudler too.. Stewart and Berglund could probably net you something decent aswell..

    I think you are smart by wanting to build around Kopitar and Suter. I would also hold onto Rielly and Orlov..

    You have 3 of the top 15 picks this draft, use that to your advantage, draft guys for your future.. Do some research and have a plan going into this draft.. Good luck to you and your new team..
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    Thanks a lot Pengwin. Do you think its a mistake to go after a goalie here? I should focus more on getting some good forwards?
    12 Team H2H Full Keeper 4C,4LW,4RW,6D,2G,5B
    G,A,PPP,SOG,SHP,+/-,PIMS / W,SVP,GA,SHO

    C: Getzlaf, Kopitar, Stepan, Couture, Perreault, Ribeiro
    LW: Ladd, Kreider
    RW: Nash, Wilson, J Williams, T. Johnson
    D: Hedman, Green, Suter, Leddy, Sekera, Stalman, Hamonic
    G: Quick, Bishop

    Prospects: A. Lee, S. Reinhart, A. Killorn, D. Nurse, M. Jones

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    Quote Originally Posted by seek View Post
    Thanks a lot Pengwin. Do you think its a mistake to go after a goalie here? I should focus more on getting some good forwards?
    Sorry to jump in here again, but goalies are so hit and miss. So you really don't have to go after goalies. I think in most cases backup goalies can be had pretty easily or alot cheaper then if they were a starter.. Unless they are Markstrom and Lehner..
    And like pengwin said, Luongo and Miller won't get you as much as you probably deserve right now, so I would hold off here a little until the dust settles on both these guys. Don't under sell these two..

    I would recommend going after young up and coming forwards.. Guys that you can potentially build around..
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    Awesome Zorro! I'll start on a list. Because of the way the league is run using both a spreadsheet and yahoo rosters it can be hard to figure out who is a free agent. A list would be really useful.

    I hadn't really been thinking about Ladd as a must/should-move, but you're right. He'll be too old by the time I get competitive.
    12 Team H2H Full Keeper 4C,4LW,4RW,6D,2G,5B
    G,A,PPP,SOG,SHP,+/-,PIMS / W,SVP,GA,SHO

    C: Getzlaf, Kopitar, Stepan, Couture, Perreault, Ribeiro
    LW: Ladd, Kreider
    RW: Nash, Wilson, J Williams, T. Johnson
    D: Hedman, Green, Suter, Leddy, Sekera, Stalman, Hamonic
    G: Quick, Bishop

    Prospects: A. Lee, S. Reinhart, A. Killorn, D. Nurse, M. Jones

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    Here's an offer I'm considering making. Wanted to check to see what you guys thought about it before hitting send:

    My:
    Martin St Louis
    Andrew Ladd
    Mike Richards (note: in last year of contract for me, and I have a bunch of other guys to re-sign next season)

    For: [from team listed in second post]
    Taylor Hall
    Justin Faulk
    Kris Versteeg

    Thanks guys, I really appreciate all the help on this site!
    12 Team H2H Full Keeper 4C,4LW,4RW,6D,2G,5B
    G,A,PPP,SOG,SHP,+/-,PIMS / W,SVP,GA,SHO

    C: Getzlaf, Kopitar, Stepan, Couture, Perreault, Ribeiro
    LW: Ladd, Kreider
    RW: Nash, Wilson, J Williams, T. Johnson
    D: Hedman, Green, Suter, Leddy, Sekera, Stalman, Hamonic
    G: Quick, Bishop

    Prospects: A. Lee, S. Reinhart, A. Killorn, D. Nurse, M. Jones

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    I love that trade for you.
    I'd see if he'd be willing to include Scheifele instead of Versteeg.

    Even with Versteeg (who isn't worth much), I love getting Hall here in your re-build.

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    I agree with pengwins post. That's a good deal, but picking up Veersteg doesn't make a lot of sense for. I would target Palmieri and E.Kane as Back up options for your negotiations.
    Last edited by agoodburn; June 28, 2013 at 2:37 PM.

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    That's a really nice trade for you. If you can get a different piece than Versteeg (especially if its Scheifele) it's a great deal, but even with Versteeg that's a nice deal for you.
    20 Team Dynasty (points per) - G (25, 50 for defense) A (25) PIM (3) PPP (15) SHP (25) OTG (15) GWG (25) HTr (50) SOW (75) HIT (1) BLK (2) W (50) SHO (100) OTL (10) GA (-15) SV (2) Use actual NHL salary

    Start 12 F, 6 D, 1G weekly

    F: Kucherov, Marchand, Barkov, Gaudreau, Laine, Aho, Dubois, Dadonov, Huberdeau, Trocheck, Bertuzzi, Beauvillier, Khaira, Grigorenko

    D: Ekman-Larsson, Yandle, Edler, Pulock, Borowiecki, Weegar, Mike Reilly

    G: Andersen, Hart

    Farm: Boldy, Beckman, Wise, Mascherin, Kovalenko, Manukyan, Walker, Morozov, Shafigullin, Palmu, Tychonic, Zhuravlyov, Kesselring, Zamula, Lankinen, Sogaard, Ingram, Rybar

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    I have done major rebuilding more than once in APBA SIM dynasty leagues. One of the appealing parts of taking on such a task is that there is no right or wrong way to achieve best results, thus it is more of an ART than a science. Remember that in SIM, unlike roto defensive player have major value and stocking up on defensive defensemen can result in getting a good return sometime down the road.

    I use a couple of phrases to help me maintain the rebuild.

    Slow and Steady wins the race
    1 Step back as long as it results in 2 steps forward
    Older Established players are fine as long as it results in future picks, prospects or possible trades for younger assets down the line

    I like to start by making a list of every other GM in the league. Which NHL teams do they like ? Do they have a favorite CHL team ? Coach, GM etc ? Knowing who likes Flames or Swedes or Knights improves your chances of targetting certain players. I play in a retro league and dealt the last Hunter brother to a guy who wanted to collect them all.

    I avoid pick swaps in general. I am in the game to acquire picks not trade them away. Picks assist the rebuild so trading them does not meet a rebuilding criteria. I can often tell how effective my season is by taking a look at how many last round draft picks I have.

    Grab established vets that are in situations that can result in increased ice time such as a UFA or RFA on teams that are building the franchise at the NHL level. Guys like Ryder, Boyes, Zidlicky, Clowe and Cooke may end up being traded to situations that fellow GM's believe they are worth acquiring. That is what rebuilding means. You can sit on these types of players and hope to cash in a few of them each and every season. Pick up a kid, prospect or pick. Rinse and repeat.

    Always consider spinning a move off to a 3rd team to improve your long term potential. Boyes to team A for a player and a pick, then turn around and trade that new player for another pick. Even if it is a last overall pick it improves your chances of hitting the jackpot down the road. Get a list of the players team A is willing to deal. Does it include a Hab ? and which GM likes Habs ? Ask for a guy like Rene Bourque and deal him to the Habs fan for a 5th round pick. He is happy and your team gets another shot at a kid.

    Never be afraid to package something to move up if you really like a player during the draft. That is what being patient and grabbing extra picks gives you the flexibility to do.

    Choose one or two higher risk veterans to target. Guys either coming back from injury or a year off is worth taking a shot on. Later on in the rebuild you won't have the roster space so take a risky bet or two early on as they could pay off.

    Don't force through a deal. You will overpay.
    Counter offer if you have the chance.
    Ask who is and who isn't available.
    Let the other GM's know you are fair and prompt to deal with.

    finally

    MAKE SURE you know if the league is planning on expansion. I have lost a significant amount of headway after a league I was in expanded and I lost a few of my players due to the expansion draft.

    Finally Have Fun. I can think of few things more rewarding than taking on someone else's poor decision making and trading and turning it into a playoff contender.
    Consider Sim Hockey because guys who play shutdown minutes, deflect shots and clear creases build championships. Yet in fantasy they litter the unwanted UFA lists.

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    I would blow up the team but not for firesale prices, perhaps slowly over a season or two I would purge the following

    Vincent Lecavalier (trade)
    Mike Richards (trade)
    Jiri Hudler (trade)
    Martin St. Louis (trade)

    Ryan Suter (trade)
    Dan Hamhuis (trade)

    Goalies (keep one and trade the one with the best return)
    Roberto Luongo
    Ryan Miller
    after another season or two I would trade the other.

    Picks
    2nd, 14th 15th 26th 36th

    I would target forwards going to teams with a good track record of development such as Ottawa and Buffalo or teams rebuilding with no other choice but to develop such as Calgary or NYI

    I would try and trade a guy like Suter as part of something to land #1 overall

    I would look for goalie prospects on teams with solid systems in place such as PHX or maybe Nashville as Rinne just had hip surgery. He could either stay in nets for 60+ games for the next half decade or alternatively be dealt or get hurt further.

    overkill I know but I had the time
    Consider Sim Hockey because guys who play shutdown minutes, deflect shots and clear creases build championships. Yet in fantasy they litter the unwanted UFA lists.

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    Take a look at the article I posted on a semi-dynasty league, many of the same concepts will apply to yours. http://hockey.dobbersports.com/index...tention-part-i

    The next one will come out on monday and part three should be up the week after, which will deal with exactly this thread and who to target going forward.

    PM me if you want to discuss this further, but I would basically utilize the market to get players that are good long term investments. An example is that I was able to swing Roy+ for Voracek+ a couple of years ago at the start of my rebuild. Voracek was inconsistent and "stuck" in columbus, many thought he wouldn't get near his ceiling while Roy was a top line centre on a decent team and usually put up close to a ppg.
    In Voracek I saw a player that may struggle for a while, but would be good when I needed to contend.

    Lots of advice in this article is of high quality, and I'd definitely listen.
    In addition, don't focus on your need for today. It hurts you in terms of draft position, and while I don't advise tanking (for a variety of reasons) don't go and intentionally get a player whose trade value is based on the next year or two. Any short-term players you trade for should only really be acquired as a buy low, because you think they will be worth more at the deadline.
    Try and grab someone like Lack, who should be a starter in a couple years when you are ready to contend. Also, play the market on streaky players. Buy low when someone is in a major slump, sell high when they go on a tear. You don't need the points, short term, but someone else does.
    I agree, keep the pick... Try and acquire some more as well as recent prospects who maybe are in the lull between post-draft hype and big league impact.
    Attempt to acquire cheap depth with a high ceiling and pick up a bunch of high risk players, some of them will pan out.

    Don't be afraid to trade everyone... Here are my rosters two years and 15+ trades apart (zoom in):
    http://goo.gl/uh0sH

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    Quote Originally Posted by donpaulo View Post
    I would blow up the team but not for firesale prices, perhaps slowly over a season or two I would purge the following

    ...
    Thanks a lot for all the thoughts, and the concrete advice! I'm a little bit surprised to see you recommend I look to move Suter specifically. As I had noted above, I was thinking I would build the rest of the team around Kopitar and Suter. Obviously any player will have a price, but I was thinking I would hold onto Suter unless something too good to refuse came up.

    I'm getting a lot of trade offers from people who want to give me established NHL talent for prospects and picks. Thats exactly the opposite of what I want to do. I've held my ground so far and have kept all my picks and more promising prospects. I'm trying to move Ladd and St Louis. I'd like to move Lecavalier, but we'll have to see where he ends up.
    12 Team H2H Full Keeper 4C,4LW,4RW,6D,2G,5B
    G,A,PPP,SOG,SHP,+/-,PIMS / W,SVP,GA,SHO

    C: Getzlaf, Kopitar, Stepan, Couture, Perreault, Ribeiro
    LW: Ladd, Kreider
    RW: Nash, Wilson, J Williams, T. Johnson
    D: Hedman, Green, Suter, Leddy, Sekera, Stalman, Hamonic
    G: Quick, Bishop

    Prospects: A. Lee, S. Reinhart, A. Killorn, D. Nurse, M. Jones

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