Calgary Flames

[rataylor22]

Selke-quality minutes? You're drunk man. I can't even find a place to start a response.

That's actually hilarious. Selke quality haha. Wow. That's just an embarrassing assessment of Backlund.

[doulos]

Selke-quality minutes? You're drunk man. I can't even find a place to start a response.

That's actually hilarious. Selke quality haha. Wow. That's just an embarrassing assessment of Backlund.

Selke-quality minutes actually doesn't state anything about Backlund except for the quality of minutes.

What he does with those minutes is what determines whether a player is a Selke-quality PLAYER.

A player can have Selke-quality minutes and still not be a Selke-quality player if I am understanding what his argument clearly.

[gainerama]

Not quite sure what Selke-quality minutes mean but I watch a lot of Flames games and Backlund is another version of MPS. Lots of speed combined with hands of stone and lack of agression. He's not good enough to be on the Flames roster if you ask me and definitely one of the first players they should try and sell high on.

[ultrawhiteness]

Selke-quality minutes? You're drunk man. I can't even find a place to start a response.

That's actually hilarious. Selke quality haha. Wow. That's just an embarrassing assessment of Backlund.

Did they change that award from "Best Defensive Forward"? I do drink a lot.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/960/the-big-...for-the-selke/

http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/wh...r-for-calgary/

In terms of puck possession, Backlund has the ability to elevate the game of whoever he plays with. Over the last five years, Backlund has a 53.2 Corsi percentage, while the average Corsi of his teammates when he’s not playing with them is just 48.6 percent (www.puckalytics.com/#/corsistats). Basically, when Backlund’s on the bench, Calgary is, well, Calgary. But when he’s on the ice, the Flames control the puck as much as most elite teams. Huge difference. That means that on average, Backlund improves his teammates’ Corsi by 4.6 percent. Here’s how he ranks among centers that have played 3,000 or more minutes from 2009-14. Hint: really well.

that one has a graphic showing the top centers per corsi impact... Backlund is 3rd last year behind just Bergeron and Koivu, and 6th over last 5 years behind just Bergeron, Sedin, Toews, Datsyuk, and Kopitar... you know, all the Selke guys.

http://www.matchsticksandgasoline.co...ly-not-bennett

Backlund should be the Flames' top-line centre this season. He set career highs and scored the most of the Calgary's centres with 18 goals and 39 points over 76 games, all while facing off against the team's toughest competition. And here's a very fun fact: his CF% rel was third in the league out of all centres. Backlund's +7.3% was behind only Selke-winner Patrice Bergeron and Mikko Koivu. And who came after Backlund? Uh, just some guy you've probably never heard of, Sidney Crosby.

Backlund had a ridiculous performance last season, and the Flames were significantly better when he was on the ice. He's only just starting to break out now, and while he'll probably never be a major scorer (although I could point out that his fellow Swede, Henrik Sedin, didn't really start to break out until he was 25, either; which isn't to say Backlund is Sedin, and the circumstances are definitely different, but, you know, don't give up on a young player with promise), he should be able to put up a modest tally, all the while consistently being one of the best Flames on the ice.

The best part about this debate of ours is it's so damn easy to win. I'm literally googling "Backlund Selke".

[rataylor22]

So you're taking one stat - specifically Relative Corsi - and as such that means Backlund is a Selke candidate. Huh. Good argument lol.

Good thing he killed it so hard defensively last season that Calgary finished 27th overall.

Of course, you had to take relative Corsi because his actual Corsi compared to all those players you listed is pretty terrible. And the stats you quoted were apparently wrong, as using your puckalytics website, Backlund's CF% rel last year was 6.8 not 7.3, and even at 7.3 it would have been behind Crosby.

Also fun fact, both his Fenwick and FF% rel were also pretty middling.

So basically, you chose to cherry pick one stat metric and use that as a basis for Backlund to be a Selke candidate. Not a good argument.

[doulos]

So you're taking one stat - specifically Relative Corsi - and as such that means Backlund is a Selke candidate. Huh. Good argument lol.

Good thing he killed it so hard defensively last season that Calgary finished 27th overall.

Yes, because Backlund's play was the only determining factor in where Calgary finished.

[ultrawhiteness]

So you're taking one stat - specifically Relative Corsi - and as such that means Backlund is a Selke candidate. Huh. Good argument lol.

Good thing he killed it so hard defensively last season that Calgary finished 27th overall.

Of course, you had to take relative Corsi because his actual Corsi compared to all those players you listed is pretty terrible. And the stats you quoted were apparently wrong, as using your puckalytics website, Backlund's CF% rel last year was 6.8 not 7.3, and even at 7.3 it would have been behind Crosby.

Also fun fact, both his Fenwick and FF% rel were also pretty middling.

So basically, you chose to cherry pick one stat metric and use that as a basis for Backlund to be a Selke candidate. Not a good argument.

As I said previously, if Calgary was a good team with great players, I wouldn't be calling Backlund their best forward. "Their best forward" sort of implies I'm speaking relatively, but hey, I'm the drunk.

Not quite sure what Selke-quality minutes mean but I watch a lot of Flames games and Backlund is another version of MPS. Lots of speed combined with hands of stone and lack of agression. He's not good enough to be on the Flames roster if you ask me and definitely one of the first players they should try and sell high on.

Well this snowballed in the opposite direction.

Yes, because Backlund's play was the only determining factor in where Calgary finished.

Bless you doulos. More proof that the Oilers don't deserve their wonderful fans.

[rataylor22]

As I said previously, if Calgary was a good team with great players, I wouldn't be calling Backlund their best forward. "Their best forward" sort of implies I'm speaking relatively, but hey, I'm the drunk.

You've already stated Backlund is a Selke-caliber forward. So are you now back-tracking on that statement? Because a Selke-caliber forward on a better team is likely to look even better. Using some players you've stated, Anze Kopitar and Patrice Bergeron are both "Selke-caliber forwards" who also happen to be the best players on their team. You'd be hard pressed to find someone who says Ryan Kesler isn't one the best forwards on his team, whether it was Vancouver or now Anaheim. So really your argument isn't making any sense at all at this point. Either Backlund is a Selke-caliber forward regardless of how good of a team Calgary is and therefore should still be the best or one of the best forwards on the team even if Calgary as whole was a much better team, or he's not at all a Selke-caliber forward and that is a laughable notion, as I've stated.

Seems like you can't even manage to stay consistent with the point you're trying to make, let alone have any sort of idea of what you're talking about.

[rataylor22]

Did they change that award from "Best Defensive Forward"? I do drink a lot.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/960/the-big-...for-the-selke/

http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/wh...r-for-calgary/

that one has a graphic showing the top centers per corsi impact... Backlund is 3rd last year behind just Bergeron and Koivu, and 6th over last 5 years behind just Bergeron, Sedin, Toews, Datsyuk, and Kopitar... you know, all the Selke guys.

http://www.matchsticksandgasoline.co...ly-not-bennett

The best part about this debate of ours is it's so damn easy to win. I'm literally googling "Backlund Selke".

For the record, here's the part where you called Backlund a Selke-caliber forward, which to be clear, means he should be a candidate for the Selke trophy. Just helping you out for when you try to back track.

[ultrawhiteness]

I'm obviously not being clear enough in my responses. I said "Selke-quality minutes", and when that phrase was questioned, googled his name + "Selke" and quoted some of the results.

By the way, this notion of Backlund as the Flames best forward is not an idea I invented. I'm not dreaming this up as something to troll you with. It is a common observation among the people who follow the team closely and for whom G+A doesn't tell the whole story.

One last link and quote, from the flamesnation season review:

http://flamesnation.ca/2014/4/28/ran...year-in-review

- No doubt the primary reason for Flames fans optimism is the club's second half. Pinpointing the source of that improvement and iterating on it is the task of the organization's decision makers this off-season. We've done our own investigations round these parts and from what we can tell a big part of the story is the combined play of Mikael Backlund, TJ Brodie and Mark Giordano.

This year, for example, when Backlund was on the ice with Giordano or Brodie, his corsi rate was an astounding 59.4%. To put that number in perspective, the LA Kings were the best possession team in the league this year with a corsi of 56.8%. As a result, Calgary's goals for % (goals for/goals against) was 62.5% (Backlund + Brodie) and 67.9% (Backlund + Gio) at even strength when the noted combinations were skating together.

Short version: the Flames dominated at even strength when Backlund-Brodie-Giordano were playing together. This is especially noteworthy because those guys regularly faced the big guns on a nightly basis, meaning their success isn't merely a consequence of circumstances.

These are elite numbers ladies and gents. which is why Giordano in particular is (rightfully) being considered in some corners for the Norris trophy.

I think I'm done presenting this particular opinion here. Who would your pick be for best Flame forward?

[rataylor22]

I'm obviously not being clear enough in my responses. I said "Selke-quality minutes", and when that phrase was questioned, googled his name + "Selke" and quoted some of the results.

By the way, this notion of Backlund as the Flames best forward is not an idea I invented. I'm not dreaming this up as something to troll you with. It is a common observation among the people who follow the team closely and for whom G+A doesn't tell the whole story.

One last link and quote, from the flamesnation season review:

http://flamesnation.ca/2014/4/28/ran...year-in-review

I think I'm done presenting this particular opinion here. Who would your pick be for best Flame forward?

A definitive pick? I don't have one. But I would put all of Monahan, Hudler, Gaudreau miles ahead of Backlund. Past that, I wouldn't have a hard time putting Granlund, Jooris, and Raymond ahead of Backlund. And then moving on down the list, I think you could safely say that Backlund can be lumped into a group with Glencross, and maybe Byron and Colborne. He's definitely not head and shoulders above any of those three, as you seem to suggest.

The fun part of you stating that Backlund with Gio and Brodie was 59.4% (provided that is a correct stat, a lot of the stats you seem to be quoting have been incorrect so far) is that actually hurts your argument. If anything, it provides a fantastic example of how good Giordano and Brodie are. Given Backlund's CF% for the 2013-14 season was 51.9%, Gio and Brodie seemed to have absolutely carried that combo despite Backlund, not because of Backlund.

[Axeman33]

Congrats to Johnny Hockey

https://twitter.com/PR_NHL/status/575859087021309952

Johnny Gaudreau (18-32—50) is the 1st to record 50 points as a rookie with @NHLFlames since Jarome Iginla (21-29—50 in 1996-97). #ANAvsCGY

[gainerama]

Pretty sure Sam Bennett will have no problems breaking that next season. Watch out!

[Axeman33]

Pretty sure Sam Bennett will have no problems breaking that next season. Watch out!

Maybe but Johnny Hockey still has more hockey to play. Bennett will have his work cut out for him.

[sLeePickeR]

I've been staying away from Calgary players because they've been unlucky for me in the past (yes I'm superstitious) but I'm going to have start re-thinking this bias.