View Poll Results: Keep Ward or Bobrovsky?

Voters
43. You may not vote on this poll
  • Sergei Bobrovsky (CBJ)

    21 48.84%
  • Cam Ward (CAR)

    22 51.16%
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 16 to 29 of 29

Thread: Keeper goalie. Ward or Bobrovsky?

  1. #16
    JAMZ's Avatar
    JAMZ is offline
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    321
    Rep Power
    8

    Dobber Sports Blue-Chipper

    Default

    I am going to support Bondon's point about re-drafting Ward. Now that we have discussed the legitimate merit of each goalie, we need to consider the other half of the equation which is perceived value.

    In order to get the most out of your situation, you really ought to trade the one with the higher perceived value to improve keepers. I think right now, that HAS to be Bob - but this also depends on what the opinion is in your league. If a trade can't happen, logic would dictate, as Bondon noted, that you should keep Bob (even if he is risky) to try to re-draft Ward in a comparatively lower round.
    9-Team, Custom Keeper. In this league GMs sign their own contracts at an auction for a specified price and term up to 4 years.

    Points
    G(3) A(2.5) +/- (0.5) SOG(0.1) FOW/FOL (0.05) HTS(0.1) BKS (0.1)

    SUMMER ROSTER
    2C - Kuznetsov
    2RW - Ovechkin (LW)
    2LW - Benn, Ladd, Perron (RW)
    3FWD From above FWDs
    6D - Yandle, Krug, Rielly,
    2G - Holtby, Dubnyk, Bobrovsky, Lehner

    6FARM - Barkov, K. Hayes, E. Lindholm, Fabbri, D. Pouliot, [EMPTY]

    *Back-to-Back Champs: 2014/15 - 2015/16*

  2. #17
    Location
    Prairies
    Rep Power
    40

    Dobber Sports Supreme Grand Master

    Default

    Interesting thread for me.

    Cam Ward, for me.
    Carolina has a brutal defense, but over some time, they'll address that and fix it.
    I'm sure they'll eventually get their head on and get another defensive-defenseman and move one of their kids.

    Bob had a big year.
    Some thoughts on him:

    1. There is NO pressure in Columbus. I've long commented on how well a goalie can perform without pressure. Do you know who else did VERY well in one season of no-pressure goaltending in Columbus??? Steve Mason. How'd he do after that ONE season... how'd he do after those "expectations were established"???

    2. Columbus is moving. Goodbye low-scoring Western Conference. Hello Eastern Conference. They'll be lumped in with PIT/PHI/NYR/NYI/NJ/WAS/CAR/CBJ. So - now you've got an apples-to-apples comparison. BOTH CAR & CBJ are in the same division. Who do you like more now, knowing that?

    (Perceived value aside)... I keep Ward here. (However, if trade value and redraft-ability comes into play... you then consider keeping Bob based on perceived value).

    I see Carolina fixing their defense eventually.
    If "expectations" set in for Bob, this may end up being a SteveMason-like year of his career.

  3. #18
    Rep Power
    50

    Dobber Sports Wizard

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pengwin7 View Post
    If "expectations" set in for Bob, this may end up being a SteveMason-like year of his career.
    personally i dont see that as i think bob ends up going on to be a solid nhl starter and mason hasnt been able to do that

    i think it is unfair to compare him to mason given that

    i do think there is a very good chance that ends up as a career year i mean look at those numbers few goalies do that once much less more than once in a career

    but his career year is still above the career year we have seen from ward

    i tend to agree with the sentiment that ward is a grossly overrated fantasy goalie

    depending on the size of the league ward is a decent second goalie if you count saves but for me bobrovsky is going to be a solid first goalie going forward

    to me i dont see how many years people can keep putting ward at the top of the league and him not even get close and continue to put him up there

  4. #19
    Location
    Colorado
    Rep Power
    18

    Dobber Sports Veteran

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pengwin7 View Post
    Cam Ward, for me.
    Carolina has a brutal defense, but over some time, they'll address that and fix it.
    I'm sure they'll eventually get their head on and get another defensive-defenseman and move one of their kids.
    This is what people keep saying... "Carolina is going to get better, D" etc, etc, but this is about as much heresay as it is to say Bobrovsky is going to regress. Bob had a stellar rookie year and only faltered in his 2nd year because they brought in a guy who stole his starts and confidence AND on top of that was already playing in one of the worst places to play for a goalie.

    Until Carolina ACTUALLY improves their D, they're going to lean on Ward to make 30-40 saves a night which means a decent SV% with a terrible GAA.

    System is just as important when evaluating a goalie as the actual goalie himself.
    14 Tm H2H Y! Dynasty
    G, A, PIM, +/-, PPP, SOG, BLK
    W, GAA, SV%, SHO
    2C, 2LW, 2RW, 2F, 4D, 2G, 3Bn, 5IR, 5IR+


    C: Brassard, Galchenyuk, Henrique, Monahan, Stepan
    LW: Cammalleri, M.Foligno, Hudler, Roussel
    RW: Nichushkin, Tarasenko
    D: Ekblad, Krug, Myers, Trouba
    G: Andersen, Khudobin, Talbot, Lehner
    IR:


    Farm (17): Players < 164gp | Goalies < 82gp
    Lindholm, W.Karlsson, Petan, Watson, Wennberg, Bertuzzi, Ehlers, Vrana, Grimaldi, Nylander, Carrick, Matheson, Morrissey, Pouliot, Demko, Hackett

  5. #20
    Location
    Prairies
    Rep Power
    40

    Dobber Sports Supreme Grand Master

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lucifer316 View Post
    personally i dont see that as i think bob ends up going on to be a solid nhl starter and mason hasnt been able to do that
    Speculation vs. History.

    Back then, Steve Mason was the speculation... not the history.

    Bob is in the exact same position as Mason.
    Big, young goalie... huge season... all the upside in the world... practically pulled the team into playoffs himself.

    Bob's going to get a nice contract.
    For Columbus to compete for a playoff spot, he'll have to play as well as he did this year... and next year... he's going to be getting PAID for it.
    If he gets $5m/year (which he could), he'll be one of the highest paid players in the lockerroom.

    People don't like it when the highest paid players aren't contributing their "worth".

    THAT is where the pressure and expectations can eat him up.

    Look at Jaroslav Halak... what's different about Halak now vs. Halak last year. What happened?

    Goalies have this magical switch in their head than can get flipped and then performance can suffer greatly.

    We don't know where that switch is with Bob... it's a big risk.
    We do know where Cam Ward stands. He's a very good goalie behind a very bad defense.

    Throw out Ward's past season (sample size too small).
    Cam Ward has put up a .915 SV% in four straight seasons.
    That's all I need to see.
    Ward. is. good.

    The poor GAA & low W totals are more a factor of the team's defense.

    Workhorse goalie that can put up .915+ SV%.
    That's solid.
    That's Ward.

    That's why I'd go with him over Bob.
    Four proven seasons of .915+ SV%.

  6. #21
    Rep Power
    50

    Dobber Sports Wizard

    Default

    mason was a rookie this was bobrovskys 3rd season so i am sorry but bob is not in the exact same position

    and bobrovsky already played in philly and wasnt scarred permanently from it as evidenced by this season so i think he will do just fine with expectations and pressure

    i am sorry i dont see the situations as exactly the same at all

    to me there is a huge difference between a 21 year old 2nd year goalie and a 25 year old 4th year goalie

    and since we are throwing away seasons if you throw away bobs 2nd season both of his others are .915+ SV%

    he doesnt have 4 years of it like ward because he hasnt played long enough to have done so

  7. #22
    Location
    Rhode Island
    Rep Power
    11

    Dobber Sports Blue-Chipper

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pengwin7 View Post
    Speculation vs. History.

    Back then, Steve Mason was the speculation... not the history.

    Bob is in the exact same position as Mason.
    Big, young goalie... huge season... all the upside in the world... practically pulled the team into playoffs himself.

    Bob's going to get a nice contract.
    For Columbus to compete for a playoff spot, he'll have to play as well as he did this year... and next year... he's going to be getting PAID for it.
    If he gets $5m/year (which he could), he'll be one of the highest paid players in the lockerroom.

    People don't like it when the highest paid players aren't contributing their "worth".

    THAT is where the pressure and expectations can eat him up.

    Look at Jaroslav Halak... what's different about Halak now vs. Halak last year. What happened?

    Goalies have this magical switch in their head than can get flipped and then performance can suffer greatly.

    We don't know where that switch is with Bob... it's a big risk.
    We do know where Cam Ward stands. He's a very good goalie behind a very bad defense.

    Throw out Ward's past season (sample size too small).
    Cam Ward has put up a .915 SV% in four straight seasons.
    That's all I need to see.
    Ward. is. good.

    The poor GAA & low W totals are more a factor of the team's defense.

    Workhorse goalie that can put up .915+ SV%.
    That's solid.
    That's Ward.

    That's why I'd go with him over Bob.
    Four proven seasons of .915+ SV%.
    So 50% of the time is good enough for you? Because he has been in the league 8 years and has 4 915 seasons? I don't care about the other seasons if he was hurt or whatever because he does get hurt its happened more than once so that factors in as well. I mean Bob has had 3 years in the league and twice over 915... So how come 2 seasons is not enough? I just dont understand how so many people love Ward.

  8. #23
    Location
    Prairies
    Rep Power
    40

    Dobber Sports Supreme Grand Master

    Default

    Pressure is from expectations.

    Cam Ward has put up .915 SV% in seasons where he has been paid to do it... and in seasons where he's expected to do it.

    Nobody has expected shit from Bob yet.

    And as for Bob's solid season in Philly.
    Why don't we just go back an look at the goalies in Philly that year...
    BOOM, here ya go.

    Do you know what that says...
    It says this "Bobrovsky was about as good as Brian Boucher in Philly in 2010-2011".
    That's what it says.

    Let's try last year...
    BOOM.
    This one says "Bobrovsky was not as good Bryzgalov in Philly in 2011-2012."

    Those are called "comparables".


    Here's what I'm trying to really hammer home.

    Bobrovsky has ONE amazing year.
    *This year... against ALL Western Conference opponents.
    *There were no expectations for Columbus and Bobrovsky to play well.
    *He played for a salary of $1.75m.

    ALL of those things, important things, will be different next year.
    The biggest, of HUGE NOTE, is that he goes from playing 48 Western Conference teams to playing in the Eastern Conference!!!
    I think, my opinion, that the changes to all of those things will impact his performance for the worse.

    Cam Ward is Cam Ward.
    And let's talk about Carolina. Their defense was crap this year... and mostly because they were trying to piece in a guy to play the point on their PP.
    I think, my opinion, they have that guy in Justin Faulk who will be greatly ready for that roll next year. Do you know which defensemen are up for free agency for Carolina... here's a list:

    *Joe Corvo, awful defensively (dragged Jay Harrison's +/- down)
    *MA Bergeron, awful defensively (signed only to provide offense to that PP, injuries)
    *Sanguinetti, not sure on him

    Now... I'll be honest, I'm not big on either Ward OR Bobrovsky.
    If there is a division I don't want a goalie in... it's the new Atlantic (PIT,PHI,NYR,NYI,NJ,WAS,CAR,CBJ).
    That's going to be a high-scoring division and ALL goalies not named Lundqvist are going to get lit up!

    But... if I'm picking between Bobrovsky & Ward, I pick Ward... because I think Carolina understands it has to improve defensively, and it will. Therefore, Ward will be back to previous form, or better.
    And I'm not picking Bob because I think this was his "no-pressure" year. I don't think we have any dependable analysis on him yet.

    (as an extra, the Canes didn't have a solid pest in Tuomo Ruutu for most of this season and had very little time to get Jordan Staal settled into the system - due to limited preseason. Carolina was absolutely shelled the first 5 games of the season).


    Anyways, let's all just post some predictions, that'll be easier.

    2013-2014
    Cam Ward. 32 wins in 70 games. 2.60 GAA, .915 SV%.
    Bobrovsky. 28 wins in 70 games. 2.70 GAA, .910 SV%.
    Last edited by Pengwin7; May 13, 2013 at 12:32 PM.

  9. #24
    Rep Power
    50

    Dobber Sports Wizard

    Default

    i would say bobrovsky will get 31-33 wins with a 2.34 GAA and a .918 SV%

    your ward numbers look about right

  10. #25
    Rep Power
    0

    Dobber Sports Sophomore

    Default

    Man.. This one isnt proving to be an easy decision at all haha.. Good points going both ways.. If it ends up too close I may just pick Ward again, since we know what kind of goalie he can be. Bob is big risk big reward... we shall see.
    12GM, H2H, Keep 4F, 3D, 1G
    Forwards/Dmen: G A P +/- PIM PPG PPA PPP SHP GWG
    Goalies: W GAA SV SV% SHO

  11. #26
    horrorfan's Avatar
    horrorfan is online now
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    8,903
    Location
    Scotland
    Rep Power
    40

    Moderator

    Default

    Not sure if it will make a difference but do you know the draft order? If so, considering the managers that are in front of you in the first round, perhaps look at who they might keep and whether you think they'd grab a goalie before you. Also, who they will be dropping and perhaps looking to pick back up. It's possible that you might get back one of Ward/Bobrovsky anyway, but having an idea of the other managers' likely strategies could help.
    2016/17 DobberHockey Tiered Invitational: 10-Year Anniversary!

    If you win your league this season you will receive the 2017/18 DobberHockey Fantasy Hockey Guide!
    Want to know more information, including how to join? Check out the links below:


    Feature article (detailing the competition)
    Forum thread (stay up to date)
    Recruitment (open now!)

  12. #27
    MJ Flex's Avatar
    MJ Flex is online now
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1,148
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario
    Rep Power
    13

    Dobber Sports Padawan

    Default

    Angus in his latest chat chose Bob over Ward if that helps break the deadlock.
    2015-2016 Champ. 13 team Rotisserie league (No positional requirements: 5 Keepers + 1 Rookie). Weekly starts. No waiver wire pick-ups.
    Active Roster consists of: 6 FW, 4 D, 2 G and 5 Bench.

    Roster:
    FW: Giroux, Simmonds, Pacioretty, Voracek, Ladd, MacLeod, Parise
    D: Doughty, Carlson, Muzzin, Shattenkirk, Spurgeon, Gudas
    G: Holtby​, Dubnyk​, Grubauer
    Farm: Eichel
    Skaters: G, A, PIM, +/-, HT, BS, SOG
    Goalies: W, (.5)SO, (.5)SV


  13. #28
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    Rep Power
    5

    Dobber Sports Sophomore

    Default

    I'm taking Ward here. I'm not going to keep a G with such a small sample size as a number one G. Ward has been consistent for a number of years and despite the mediocre GAA, his W, SV% and saves make this a no brainer for me.

    Bob had a great year(or half year....) but who knows how he trends from here on out. I see keeping Bob over ward as a huge gamble.

  14. #29
    MXHockey's Avatar
    MXHockey is offline
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    6,226
    Location
    Alaska
    Rep Power
    50

    Dobber Sports Wizard

    Default

    One of the better threads I've read in a while:

    Many have spoken to the stats and the sample size differences, so won't go there.


    In situations like this, you also need to look at contracts, and competition for the roster spot. Ward has a deal (for 6.3m/year that isn't up until 2015-2016) with no one in the system to steal starts from him. He's had an injury roller coaster, but is always the undisputed number one goalie no matter what. Carolina will improve next season for sure.

    Bobs is an RFA and has no contract yet. His back-up right now is Leighton (a UFA whose contract also expires). If Columbus signs Bob to a nice deal long term, it says a lot. They could also give him a short term deal, which says the franchise is not yet sold. Who will the team sign as a back-up or even 1b option. Answers we don't have yet, but should soon.

    I think people who are down on CLB are forgetting the recent management changes on that team. This team will improve, they have the decision makers in place now to ensure this, which is a benefit to Bobs if he signs long term.


    As of today, I would take Ward for the simple reason that he is the obvious number one on his team and has a high paying contract that runs for 3 more seasons. He has pressure to perform and earn his money, but he has no competition which relieves pressure. A perfect situation.


    As the off-season progresses I would re-evaluate, based on Bob's contract and who the 2nd goalie is on the roster. My gut tells me Bobs is going meet expectations, and I would be tempted to keep him, but Ward is the choice here for many practical reasons.

    The point about both teams being in the same conference next season and facing the same competition is a good one. I think Carolina will adjust much better than CLB next year.


    Cheers.
    Greatest Five to Ever Play:

    1)Gretzky
    2)Lemieux
    3)Orr
    4)Howe
    5)Messier

    16 Team Keeper League Points Only H2H Avg Weekly Scoring

    F: Nash, Gaborik, Krejci, Datsyuk, E.Staal, Parenteau, B.Richards, Jagr
    D: Chara, Gonchar, Campbell, Seabrook
    G: Anderson, Holtby
    Bench: Havlat, Kipper
    Farm: Bennett, Eakin, R.Murphy, Orlov

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •