What is Pittsburgh to do?

[Zorro]

Okay, I was wrong. But making those "bold" predictions are always fun, and feels pretty good when you're right. But I was wrong, and everyone else was right, lol. Vokoun was great.

Not many guys will come on here and admit when they are wrong.. I respect that and in turn will add to your REP.. Its never a bad thing to make bold statements..

Last year I took Kopitar, Richards, and Doughty in my playoff pool.. And ofcourse I was laughed at, but I think I had the last laugh when I won the $400 first prize..

[letangerang58]

I think if the Pens want to trade Fleury the only option is to trade for Miller. The Pens would need a better goalie in return and the team trading them would need to take Fleury as part of the package. This is the only team that I think would be able to do this and could want to do it.

The problem is what pieces would the Sabres want in addition to Fleury.

[letangerang58]

Do the Pens trade MAF in the offseason, along with Evgeni Malkin (because let's face it, Malkin and Crosby are at their best when the other superstar isn't playing and reducing their ice time.) I believe both of those players could flourish on a different team. Like, maybe Malkin going to a team like Toronto, or Montreal. Fleury going to maybe the Islanders, Jets, Chicago. I think that would work out to a great benefit to the receiving team, and the Penguins. Think about what the Penguins could get for that amount of talent. First round picks, depth players, another star goalie.

Malkin is second in post season scoring. Crosby is tied for 3rd. Sure Malkin makes bone headed moves but as long as he wants to stay in Pittsburgh he will be here. We already lost Staal why would we want to trade away more center depth especially considering how crappy the market is for quality scoring centers. Even if Malkin isn't putting up absured numbers every night he's still far better than anything the Pens will get in return for a center. Also with Crosby's propensity for getting injured it makes it even harder for them to trade him.

[mvlittle]

Somewhat hijacking this thread a bit, but I'm in a postseason fantasy league where the stat categories in my sig are the same but the roster is not. I had the #1 pick and I drafted Fleury. I thought (still think) Pittsburgh will win the Cup and having the goaltender of the winning team is a huge leg up on the competition. In essence, I don't necessarily regret the pick but with hindsight, I obviously wouldn't have done it. Now I'm in a huge dilemma. Do I drop Fleury and pick up Voukon (or another goalie) or do I hold steady with him in hopes Bylsma gives him another shot down the road? For reference, we only get eight acquisitions for the entire playoffs so using one for a player who is still in the playoffs is a big deal.

[mounD]

Somewhat hijacking this thread a bit, but I'm in a postseason fantasy league where the stat categories in my sig are the same but the roster is not. I had the #1 pick and I drafted Fleury. I thought (still think) Pittsburgh will win the Cup and having the goaltender of the winning team is a huge leg up on the competition. In essence, I don't necessarily regret the pick but with hindsight, I obviously wouldn't have done it. Now I'm in a huge dilemma. Do I drop Fleury and pick up Voukon (or another goalie) or do I hold steady with him in hopes Bylsma gives him another shot down the road? For reference, we only get eight acquisitions for the entire playoffs so using one for a player who is still in the playoffs is a big deal.

Here is my take on the situation:


MAF has been pretty much a slouch for the last two postseasons (10 games in all); however, before that (not counting TB series right now) he had two very dominant SC runs with this Pittsburgh club. Now, I understand that the Pens are nowhere close to their former 08-09 selves, at least in terms of defensive prowess / depth, but MAF was a dominant player during both of those deep playoff runs. He wasn't carried, he wasn't an extraneous piece: he was dominant, and has a SC ring like a feather in his cap to prove it. I'm sure most Pens fans will remember his lights-out performance in gm5 (6?)of the 09 SC Finals -- MAF played his best game of the playoffs after being lit up in Detroit the previous game, and essentially stole the game for PIT.

So we know that MAF has elite upside. He's not currently an elite goaltender, but he's a good goaltender, a solid goaltender. Admittedly, he's dealing with some serious confidence issues, but MAF is the guy. If the Penguins want to raise the Cup this summer they'll need MAF playing at a high-level, that's just the way it is. Vokoun proved his worth to the club, and his calming presence was a huge reason the Pens were able to advance, but he's not the guy.

For these reasons, I would expect MAF to get back in the nets gm1 @home against Ottawa in the Eastern semifinals. It's the perfect situation:
Home game, fresh series (blank slate), against a team whom MAF has had significant career success in his own building. The Penguins need Flower playing at a high level if they have any hopes of reaching 16 wins this postseason, and I think he will be back in the crease for Round 2 Game 1.

Good luck with your playoff pool. Don't panic -- believe in MAF.

[Carcillo]

So we know that MAF has elite upside. He's not currently an elite goaltender, but he's a good goaltender, a solid goaltender. Admittedly, he's dealing with some serious confidence issues, but MAF is the guy. If the Penguins want to raise the Cup this summer they'll need MAF playing at a high-level, that's just the way it is. Vokoun proved his worth to the club, and his calming presence was a huge reason the Pens were able to advance, but he's not the guy.

For these reasons, I would expect MAF to get back in the nets gm1 @home against Ottawa in the Eastern semifinals. It's the perfect situation:
Home game, fresh series (blank slate), against a team whom MAF has had significant career success in his own building. The Penguins need Flower playing at a high level if they have any hopes of reaching 16 wins this postseason, and I think he will be back in the crease for Round 2 Game 1.

Good luck with your playoff pool. Don't panic -- believe in MAF.

No way should Flower start against Sens. You don't mess with winning lineup and Vokoun got the wins the team needed while Flower was on his way of playing the team out of the playoffs. Vokoun is the man now. It's his job to lose. He's good enough to win the Cup with - Pens don't need elite goaltending to win the Cup. They need someone who makes the necessary saves and that's Vokoun. They don't need someone who lets in shots fired from behind the goal line all the time.

[blayze]

Putting MAF in is a horrible idea.

It is horrible both strategically and it also sends the wrong message to the locker room - let's reward mediocrity and shitty play and award ice time based on the name on the back of the jersey.

[mounD]

Putting MAF in is a horrible idea.

It is horrible both strategically and it also sends the wrong message to the locker room - let's reward mediocrity and shitty play and award ice time based on the name on the back of the jersey.

I'll agree it's not exactly a great idea, but there is a lot more that DB has to consider than just the last few games. I feel like gm1 is as good a time as there will be to get MAF back in, although as you mention, it doesn't send a good message to Vokoun / the rest of the room.

But I think that room knows MAF is their guy. I think they know that if they're going anywhere, MAF is going to have to play well at some point.

I'll concede that Vokoun probably *should* start the net series, BUT when do you play MAF? Only if Vokoun seriously stumbles? What message does that send to MAF?

I'm just playing devil's advocate with the above questions, I'm just legitimately concerned about how this situation will affect MAF's confidence going fwd. I've had this discussion about a million times in the past few days, so I'm really not in the mood right now, lol.

I will say this: I'm a firm believer in MAF's ability, and he WILL get another shot to prove his worth in these playoffs. I just feel the sooner that happens, the better -- for both MAF and the Penguins SC hopes.

[Carcillo]

I'll concede that Vokoun probably *should* start the net series, BUT when do you play MAF? Only if Vokoun seriously stumbles?

You only go back to Fleury if Vokoun starts to play as bad as Fleury played against the Islanders. It's almost impossible (though Vokoun did have a stretch of 2-3 games like that in the regular season).

What message does that send to MAF?

That he had more than enough chances and he blew it. There's no I in team. Vokoun gives Pens a chance to win - Fleury didn't. It's that simple.

[blayze]

I'll concede that Vokoun probably *should* start the net series, BUT when do you play MAF? Only if Vokoun seriously stumbles? What message does that send to MAF?

It sends the message that if you play like SHIT you get benched.

The whole problem with the lot of you Pens fans is you seem to carry this weird notion that MAF is entitled to be the undisputed #1 no matter how shitty he plays.

Besides... you're going down a very slippery slope if you bench Vokoun now, and give MAF the pitty start, because if MAF chokes (which he probably will), then you come crawling back to Vokoun and he'll be disgruntled and have every cop out to play shitty. If you ride him now and hold him accountable he will play his best. Leave it up to him to lose the job.

I think they know that if they're going anywhere, MAF is going to have to play well at some point.

This is where we fundamentally disagree.

As Carcillo mentioned, the Pens don't need amazing goaltending to win the cup... they are not the Sens or the Rangers. They need reliable, decent, steady goaltending - and that's the definition of Vokoun. They will win the Stanley Cup even if they give up 2 goals every game and no more. MAF is exactly the risky type of guy who will get them eliminated.

I don't get where this notion of MAF having "elite" upside even comes from anyway. The dude had ONE single good playoffs out of SEVEN. His last FOUR playoffs including this year have been HORRIBLE - we're talking less than .900 save percentage for god sake. In what world is that elite?

Disappointed in your analysis here mound... as the Penguins coverage guy I expect better

[mounD]

You only go back to Fleury if Vokoun starts to play as bad as Fleury played against the Islanders. It's almost impossible (though Vokoun did have a stretch of 2-3 games like that in the regular season).



That he had more than enough chances and he blew it. There's no I in team. Vokoun gives Pens a chance to win - Fleury didn't. It's that simple.

You're probably right. I'm just being paranoid about the future on this one.

[mvlittle]

So it appears the majority of those posting have no faith in MAF getting a shot and/or succeeding in that shot. I bring the discussion back around to my question, should I suck it up and drop my #1 pick? Someone already grabbed Voulon so the only options left are Anderson, Hiller, Reimer, Lundqvist (my other goalie is Holtby, just as an FYI), or a backup.

[hockeymanG23]

Gotta go with Vokoun since he has the hot hand. As a pro MAF should understand that shitty play gets you benched so his role now is to support his team mates and stay prepared for when he's needed.