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Thread: Malkin/Rinne or Ovie/Lundqvist?

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    Default Malkin/Rinne or Ovie/Lundqvist?

    In a league that counts G, A, P, PIM, +/-, PPP, SOG, FOW, Hits, Blocks, W, GAA, Sv%, Saves.

    Who do you want?

    Malkin/Rinne
    or
    Ovie/Lundqvist

    Big names in this potential trade...

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    WIth those cats I'm taking AO + Lundy personally. I still think Lundy is the best goalie you can own, and those cats are tailored made to AO with SOG and Hits in there to give you a buffer if he "slumps" to a point per game.
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    I say the kicker here is the lack of SHP and the addition of FOW. Therefore, I have to favor the Malkin-Rinne side. Yes AO is back, but Malkin never left... Rinne can have a crappy team and be amongst the top 3 goalies in the league. I do prefer Lundy over Rinne, but I think there is a bigger gap and more ''points to be gained'' between Ovechkin and Malkin than there is with the two goalies, hence my decision.

    Just to be sure, do you have any values to the stats that are being counted (or is it just an accumulation of the above that determine their weight?)
    Keeper league 16 teams (H2H, keep 18-20 NHLers, 15 minors; Championships 2009-10, 2013-14)
    Scoring Cats: G-A-PTS-PPG-PPA-(+/-)-PIM-SHP-SOG-FOW-GWG / W-L-SVS-SV%-GAA-SO

    C- Crosby, Toews, Stastny, Cammalleri, Plekanec
    LW- MacKinnon, Landeskog, Nyquist, Burakovsky
    RW- Pavelski, Voracek, Forsberg, Ryan
    D- Yandle, Carlson, Niskanen
    G- Price, Varlamov, Halak, Greiss

    Minors:
    F: Milano, N.Schmaltz, Dvorak, Merkley, Senyshyn, Beauvillier, McLeod
    D: Provorov, Pulock, Montour, Lindell, Juolevi
    G: Hellebuyck, Calvin Pickard, Taylor

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    Do you have forward positions? If so, Ovy/Lundy, and it's not close.

    For that matter, I take Lundy over Rinne by a wide margin. Rinne has proven himself to be elite for a few years, but Lundy has proven himself to be elite for nearly a decade. Lundy's career numbers are better and he has a longer track record. Lundy for me.

    FOW favours Malkin though not by much because he's bad at FOW for a centre, but hits is hugely in Ovy's favour.


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    Quote Originally Posted by PensInThree View Post
    In a league that counts G, A, P, PIM, +/-, PPP, SOG, FOW, Hits, Blocks, W, GAA, Sv%, Saves.

    Who do you want?

    Malkin/Rinne
    or
    Ovie/Lundqvist

    Big names in this potential trade...
    As discussed above, unless the values are weighted, I take Ovi/Lundy.

    Malkin MAY get more points and slightly more PPP. BUT that would be offset by the differential in Hits and SOG.

    Also Gino is a little more injury prone, IMO.

    The similarities are so close that I cant see too many leagues or scenarios where these two options would be the determining factor over the rest of the team.

    You cant go wrong with either and should go with best TEAM fit compared to rest of roster.
    PS I think the overtly defensive regime in WAS is OVER! So I DO discount OVIs recent history.
    League Rules:12 Teams-24 Players-12 Keepers.
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    C-V.Lecavelier,M.Duchene,L.Couture,D.Stepan
    LW-A.Ovechkin,T.Hall,V.Leino,E.Cole,K.Clifford
    RW-I.Kovalchuk,C.Stewart,J.Skinner,B.Little
    D-Z.Chara,V.Hedman,J.Johnson,D.Hamhuis,E.Johnson,M.G iordano,M.A.Bergeron
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    Lundy and Ovechkin.


    Much of the same things said already I'd also agree with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bass56 View Post
    I say the kicker here is the lack of SHP and the addition of FOW. Therefore, I have to favor the Malkin-Rinne side. Yes AO is back, but Malkin never left... Rinne can have a crappy team and be amongst the top 3 goalies in the league. I do prefer Lundy over Rinne, but I think there is a bigger gap and more ''points to be gained'' between Ovechkin and Malkin than there is with the two goalies, hence my decision.

    Just to be sure, do you have any values to the stats that are being counted (or is it just an accumulation of the above that determine their weight?)
    Malkin hasn't played a full season since 2008. Last 4 year GP 28(48), 75, 43, 67. He may not have left but he is a band-aid boy.

    Ovie and Lundy for me.
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    Active Roster: 6 forwards, 4 defense and 2 goalies.
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    Lundy is in a much better situation than Rinne. If Nashville ever changes its playing style and get some run support for Rinne. might change over the years. Also OV over Malkin for reasons stated above OV hits and Shots vs Malkin FOW. Also injury prone on the Malkin side. OV has only missed a handful of games over his career becuase of injury and a couple from suspension.
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    Sweet, lots of opinions. Thanks all.

    We do have positions, start 3LW, 3C, 3RW. It's a H2H yahoo with each category being a 'category' win. So no weight to particular categories.

    FOW does give Malkin an edge (he has RW status in Yahoo) but I'm thinking that Malkin's RW status is a thing of the past. He's established chemistry with Neal. Iginla may stay (though I doubt it), and Crosby, Kunitz, Dupuis make up a dominant line as well.

    FOW becomes a liability for Malkin if he only gets C status.

    I'm thinking about offering this to the Ovi owner who happens to be a huge Pens fan.

    He also has Quick, I also have Price.

    Would you send Price or Rinne? Would you want back Lundy or Quick?

    Decision, decision.

    Thanks again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PensInThree View Post
    Sweet, lots of opinions. Thanks all.

    We do have positions, start 3LW, 3C, 3RW. It's a H2H yahoo with each category being a 'category' win. So no weight to particular categories.

    FOW does give Malkin an edge (he has RW status in Yahoo) but I'm thinking that Malkin's RW status is a thing of the past. He's established chemistry with Neal. Iginla may stay (though I doubt it), and Crosby, Kunitz, Dupuis make up a dominant line as well.

    FOW becomes a liability for Malkin if he only gets C status.

    I'm thinking about offering this to the Ovi owner who happens to be a huge Pens fan.

    He also has Quick, I also have Price.

    Would you send Price or Rinne? Would you want back Lundy or Quick?

    Decision, decision.

    Thanks again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PensInThree View Post
    1.FOW does give Malkin an edge (he has RW status in Yahoo).

    2.FOW becomes a liability for Malkin if he only gets C status.

    3.Would you send Price or Rinne? Would you want back Lundy or Quick?
    1) That's why I favor the Malkin side; the difference in hits won't hurt you as much as a winger status that gets top FOW numbers

    2) Not a liability, but it is a small gamble (I think he will get it nonetheless sooner or later in the year)

    3) I would hold on to Price as he is the best goalie in the list (yes he sucks now but even Roy had his bad games). That being said, I think you can get Quick for alot less than Lundy at the moment. The long term value of both is quite comparable I think in terms of numbers. I say try to get Quick while he is at his worst. Could you send Rinne and another player for Quick on Ovie? If it takes Price to land Quick and Ovie without parting ways with Malkin, by all means pull the trigger on it. Keep us posted on what can be done please
    Keeper league 16 teams (H2H, keep 18-20 NHLers, 15 minors; Championships 2009-10, 2013-14)
    Scoring Cats: G-A-PTS-PPG-PPA-(+/-)-PIM-SHP-SOG-FOW-GWG / W-L-SVS-SV%-GAA-SO

    C- Crosby, Toews, Stastny, Cammalleri, Plekanec
    LW- MacKinnon, Landeskog, Nyquist, Burakovsky
    RW- Pavelski, Voracek, Forsberg, Ryan
    D- Yandle, Carlson, Niskanen
    G- Price, Varlamov, Halak, Greiss

    Minors:
    F: Milano, N.Schmaltz, Dvorak, Merkley, Senyshyn, Beauvillier, McLeod
    D: Provorov, Pulock, Montour, Lindell, Juolevi
    G: Hellebuyck, Calvin Pickard, Taylor

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    If it comes down to Malkin's value being tied to his RW status, I think you're nuts in taking that assumption going forward. Yes, Yahoo plays funny games with positions. Trying to predict what's going to happen is a full-time job. However, what we know is that Malkin plays centre. Eventually, his fantasy hockey position eligibility is going to catch up with the real world.

    I would want back Lundy. He is the best fantasy goalie. Anybody else telling you different is snowing you or not looking at your scoring categories. In terms of consistency -- which is the key thing in fantasy hockey goaltending -- nobody else stacks up to Lundy.

    Ovy at LW or RW in a league that counts hits and SOG is the best skater there is. Add in FOW and centres get a bump, but Malkin is bad at FOW.

    For me, Ovy is a much better player to have than Malkin.

    On the goaltending side, Quick has too short a resume to include in the discussion with the rest. Yes, he's had a season of incredible stats. One season. Not enough.

    Lundqvist > Price = Rinne > Quick

    I wouldn't worry about which of Price or Rinne you send. If you could send either with Malkin and get back Ovy and Lundqvist you are getting a steal of a deal. I'd wonder what the other GM is thinking to be honest.


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    ^Agree with the FHG post above.
    Ovechkin/Lundqvist... not close for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fantasyhockeygeek View Post
    If it comes down to Malkin's value being tied to his RW status, I think you're nuts in taking that assumption going forward. Yes, Yahoo plays funny games with positions. Trying to predict what's going to happen is a full-time job. However, what we know is that Malkin plays centre. Eventually, his fantasy hockey position eligibility is going to catch up with the real world.
    Maybe you misunderstood me, or your 'nuts in making that assumption going forward' is aimed at Bass.

    A big part of the reason I'm thinking about trying to work this kind of deal is that I know Malkin plays C in the 'real world' and that looks to be more of a sure thing going forward than it has in the past(this because of the Dupuis, Kunitz, Crosby success and the Neal/Malkin success).

    If I knew Malkin was going to have RW status for the next three years, I'm not sure I'd do this. FOWs are big in this league, and having an elite option at RW that gets reasonable FOWs is a big plus.

    But the problem is I don't know this, and I think Yahoo will only give Malkin C either next year or the year after.

    So with Malkin's RW status now, it seems like now is the time to try to capitalize on that status and ship em. Of course, Ovie is red hot and Malkin's been a huge band-aid, so that mitigates the send-now argument. By now, though, I mean prior to draft next year. Preferably over the summer.

    My personal ranking goes Lundy, Price, Quick, Rinne. Quick's slow start this year again mirrored LA's poor team effort. I think with LA's dominant puck possession game, and likely higher win total, Quick's going to be more valuable than Rinne on a Nashville squad that appears to have lost its identity. I do think Rinne's the more talented goalie, but not by much.

    I also have Bob. Would anyone here value Bob anywhere close to Rinne? I've been toying with the idea of moving Malkin for Ovie. And then moving Letang, Rinne, and Benn for Perry + Karlsson. I can keep two goalies, and that would give me Price + Bob. Not a sure-fire tandem, but acquiring Karlsson is intriguing. Basically the keeper switch would be Malkin, Benn, Letang, Rinne or Ovie, Perry, Karlsson, Bob. Basically I've been slammed by injuries this year, and I'd like the certainty of fewer band-aids.

    Anyway, thanks for the advice. Great food for thought here. This deal, if it goes down, won't go down until after the playoffs. Probably until the summer sometime. But if it does, or as negotiations get underway, I'll post back and let people know.

    If you have any thoughts on the other deal, chime in!

    Thanks again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PensInThree View Post
    1. Maybe you misunderstood me, or your 'nuts in making that assumption going forward' is aimed at Bass.

    2. If I knew Malkin was going to have RW status for the next three years, I'm not sure I'd do this. FOWs are big in this league, and having an elite option at RW that gets reasonable FOWs is a big plus.


    3. My personal ranking goes Lundy, Price, Quick, Rinne. Quick's slow start this year again mirrored LA's poor team effort. I think with LA's dominant puck possession game, and likely higher win total, Quick's going to be more valuable than Rinne on a Nashville squad that appears to have lost its identity. I do think Rinne's the more talented goalie, but not by much.

    4. I also have Bob. Would anyone here value Bob anywhere close to Rinne?
    1) Hehe, yes it was aimed at me and I still stand put on my comment based on my arguments. It is not an assumption as Malkin does play on the wing on given nights so he will get his winger eligibility. It's not just a random status (though Yahoo is the one issuing it)...

    2) FOW are huge in most leagues, especially if you can get them from a winger. Every year I've won, it's because I had a winger with a C-2's FOW total on top of my centermens FOW (Giroux, Hodgson, Carter, Richards, Ennis...).

    3) I agree as well

    4) No

    * Just for kicks, here is a breakdown of Ovie and Malkin's stats:

    Ovechkin
    599 GP - 732 Pts - 404 PIMS - 754 hits - 3043 SOG
    1.22 Pts/G (goal heavy) - 0.67 PIMS/G - 1.26 hits/G - 5.08 SOG/G

    Malkin (started 1 year later than Ovechkin)
    456 GP - 557 Pts - 462 PIMS - 128 hits - 1688 SOG - 1973 FOW
    1.22 Pts/G (assist heavy) - 1.01 PIMS/G - 0.28 hits/G - 3.7 SOG/G - 4.33 FOW/G


    I do not feel both sides are that far apart as some claim. Yes, Lundy is better than Rinne, but once again, it's very comparable. I still feel the FOW kicker + winger eligibility is what leads me to keep the Malkin side. I guess you can call me ''nuts'' if you want
    Keeper league 16 teams (H2H, keep 18-20 NHLers, 15 minors; Championships 2009-10, 2013-14)
    Scoring Cats: G-A-PTS-PPG-PPA-(+/-)-PIM-SHP-SOG-FOW-GWG / W-L-SVS-SV%-GAA-SO

    C- Crosby, Toews, Stastny, Cammalleri, Plekanec
    LW- MacKinnon, Landeskog, Nyquist, Burakovsky
    RW- Pavelski, Voracek, Forsberg, Ryan
    D- Yandle, Carlson, Niskanen
    G- Price, Varlamov, Halak, Greiss

    Minors:
    F: Milano, N.Schmaltz, Dvorak, Merkley, Senyshyn, Beauvillier, McLeod
    D: Provorov, Pulock, Montour, Lindell, Juolevi
    G: Hellebuyck, Calvin Pickard, Taylor

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