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Thread: Trying to farm the next great D

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    JAMZ's Avatar
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    Default Trying to farm the next great D

    Rank these D-men: points-only / 3-year window

    Tyson Barrie
    Jacob Trouba
    Patrick Wierioch
    Jake Muzzin
    Matt Dumba
    Raphael Diaz

    I am guessing that in my league, Diaz will probably be about twice the price, and the rest wil largely be easy to get. Will any of them be a fair bet for 40+ points soon?
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    2RW - Ovechkin (LW)
    2LW - Benn, Ladd, Perron (RW)
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    Points Only... I'd say Barrie, Weircioch, and Diaz will get some PP time which is where defencemen pad the point stats. Colorado has the biggest need for a PP quarterback (Johnson isn't working out) so out of the lot I like Barrie's upside the most. The rest have steep competition for icetime. Diaz is more of a sure thing though as Markov is getting older.

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    Barrie would be the guy I'd want. The Avs are already leaning on him heavily and he's been playing well, so there's no reason for that to change. Sacco could get sacked, and the new coach might change things up and lean on someone else, but that's trying to predict the unpredictable.

    What happens to Wiercioch when Karlsson comes back? No matter how well he's been playing Karlsson is going to take his spot in every offensive situation. I expect Wiercioch to take a big hit when Karlsson returns, whether that's this season or next. If he ever gets moved somewhere else he could explode, but, again, that's totally impossible to predict at this point.
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    Just to jump in on the Barrie thing. What do you think will happen to his PP time if Seth Jones gets picked #1 by the Avs? Will Jones come in and be PP-QB right away, or is he a bit away from that?
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    3-year upside, I'd go...

    1. Jacob Trouba: Will emerge as a full-meal beast and minute muncher. Big shot; aggressive. I consider his upside to be a Ryan Suter/Jack Johnson hybrid. Within 2-3 years he should be in 12G/30A territory. Granted, Winnipeg has Enstrom, Byfuglien and Bogosian in the top 6 but Trouba will be too good to be held back - he's a future D anchor.

    2. Matt Dumba: Possibly the next PK Subban or young Dion Phaneuf. Reckless player with plenty of skill and gamebreaking ability. Could be a future PP Q-Back on Wild with 15G upside. I would gamble on the upside.

    3. Raphael Diaz: After Trouba and Dumba, I guess I will go with Diaz. Mainly because I see Markov either winding down or getting hurt again fairly soon. When that happens, Diaz will benefit in the short-term. Long-term though, Subban and Nathan Beaulieu will be the main D scorers on the Habs blue line.

    4. Patrick Wiercioch: The clock on Gonchar is ticking and Karlsson will need a PP compliment on D until Cody Ceci emerges in that role. Being a Lefty gives Wiercioch an advantage as does his smooth passing and nose for offense. In fact, him and Diaz are interchangeable IMO.

    5. Tyson Barrie: I know, I know, Barrie emerged this season, but I ain't buying it. If one thing is certain, it's that the Avs have no clue who will run their offense from the back-end. E.Johnson was supposed to get the gig - then Stefan Elliott had the job locked up - now Barrie got his crack and produced a little. When the Avs add Seth Jones into the mix the waters will get even muddier. The problem with the Avs is that ALL of their offensive-minded D-Men are Righties: Johnson, Barrie, Elliott and (most likely) Jones. I wouldn't be surprised to see the two American kids (EJ and Jones) paired up on a PP unit to start but long-term I think Jones and Elliott will be the main offensive producers from the point in Denver.

    6. Jake Muzzin: Nice player; pleasant surprise. Two words: Doughty AND Voynov. If we're ranking 3-year windows, move the kids who have a shot at being the MAIN offensive guys on their teams one day soon to the top of the list - Muzzin is not that player.

    Something to consider - hunt down Morgan Rielly, Justin Faulk, Brendan Smith, Adam Larsson and Griffin Reinhart (YES, Reinhart). I think Rielly, Faulk and Smith will be awesome talents within 2 years. Larsson and Reinhart are "buy low" guys now because they are not considered "offensive dynamos" although I think both surprise soon. Three other guys to keep an eye on are: Cody Ceci, Ryan Sproul and Mark Barberio.
    Last edited by fungchen3; May 7, 2013 at 8:59 PM.
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    I'd say:

    1) Matt Dumba
    2) Jacob Trouba
    3) Jake Muzzin
    4) Tyson Barrie
    5) Patrick Wierioch
    6) Raphael Diaz
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    D: Karlsson, Subban, Goligoski, D. Kulikov, Carlson, Brodin, Trouba
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    1) Jacob Trouba (multi-cat beast)

    2) Matt Dumba (Subban hybrid)

    3) Tyson Barrie (nice surprise, great overall skill)

    4) Jake Muzzin (nice style, can be relied on and LA has many different scoring threats so he can rack up points even if he is not paired with the first line of forwards)

    5) Raphael Diaz (good for points, but very soft)

    6) Patrick Wierioch (he has had a good season, but I do not see his production continuing next year and beyond... think Andrew McDonald in 2010-11 )
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    1- Jacob Trouba
    2- Tyson Barrie
    3- Raphael Diaz
    4- Patrick Wierioch
    5- Mathew Dumba
    6- Jake Muzzin
    Straight Points keeper league. Keep 5 Forwards,3 defence,1 goalie.

    F: Nicklas Backstrom, Joe Thornton, Henrik Zetterberg, Zach Parise, Logan Couture

    D: Erik Karlsson, Alex Pietrangelo, Oliver Ekman-Larsson

    G: Sergei Bobrovsky

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    Quote Originally Posted by rainman View Post
    Just to jump in on the Barrie thing. What do you think will happen to his PP time if Seth Jones gets picked #1 by the Avs? Will Jones come in and be PP-QB right away, or is he a bit away from that?
    yeah I am wondering this also. was catching up on the dailys and saw this and also very concerned as I just drafted barrie hoping for big things. I think it confuses things but I still think barrie will be good.
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    My hunch would be something like this..

    1) Trouba
    2) Barrie
    3) Dumba
    4) Wierioch
    5) Muzzin
    6) Diaz
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    1- Trouba
    2- Dumba
    3- Barrie
    4- Wiercioch
    5- Muzzin
    6- Diaz
    Points only keeper league
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    Wow, thanks everyone. I forgot to subscribe to this and now this thread has exploded.

    To summarize:

    Top tier:
    (1) Trouba
    (2/3) Barrie / Dumba

    Bottom tier:
    (4) Diaz
    (5/6) Muzzin / Wiercioch

    This seems to be what people think on average, so far in this post. Very surprised to see the favour in Trouba's court, despite being in perhaps the deepest D-talent pool in the NHL. How's a guy to get minutes playing in a town with Enstrom, Byfuglien, Bogosian, and even Hainsey, Postma, Clitsome. All these guys are serviceable with some (if not mediocre) offensive potential.

    It's true though, you can't hold elite talent back for long.

    From what I have read, I second the comments about Larsson, Reinhart, etc. I have questions about Rielly's emergence with the Leafs though, since they seem confused the last couple years about who their future is on the blueline.
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    Points
    G(3) A(2.5) +/- (0.5) SOG(0.1) FOW/FOL (0.05) HTS(0.1) BKS (0.1)

    SUMMER ROSTER
    2C - Kuznetsov
    2RW - Ovechkin (LW)
    2LW - Benn, Ladd, Perron (RW)
    3FWD From above FWDs
    6D - Yandle, Krug, Rielly,
    2G - Holtby, Dubnyk, Bobrovsky, Lehner

    6FARM - Barkov, K. Hayes, E. Lindholm, Fabbri, D. Pouliot, [EMPTY]

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    Quote Originally Posted by JAMZ View Post
    I have questions about Rielly's emergence with the Leafs though, since they seem confused the last couple years about who their future is on the blueline.
    Rielly is the most offensively-gifted defenseman in the entire Leafs system, including their big club right now. He will be a star.
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    (G): Price, Holtby, Vasilevskiy

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    Quote Originally Posted by JAMZ View Post
    To summarize:

    Top tier:
    (1) Trouba
    (2/3) Barrie / Dumba

    Bottom tier:
    (4) Diaz
    (5/6) Muzzin / Wiercioch

    This seems to be what people think on average, so far in this post. Very surprised to see the favour in Trouba's court, despite being in perhaps the deepest D-talent pool in the NHL. How's a guy to get minutes playing in a town with Enstrom, Byfuglien, Bogosian, and even Hainsey, Postma, Clitsome. All these guys are serviceable with some (if not mediocre) offensive potential.
    In Winnipeg, Hainsey, Clitsome and Meech are all UFA. Bogosian and Postma are RFA. That leaves only Byfuglien, Enstrom and M.Stuart signed for next season. I doubt they deal Bogosian, so he'll likely sign a cheapy bridge deal (something less than Subban got for sure). That leaves two spots in the top six, with maybe both Clitsome and Postma reupping.

    Regardless of how it all pans out, Trouba isn't likely to set the world on fire offensively in his first couple or three seasons in the Peg; not with Byfuglien and Enstrom in the mix. Bogosian has offensive potential as well, so Trouba will likely end up focusing on defensive assignments for his first couple of seasons, at least in my opinion. That knocks him down a bit for fantasy hockey anyway.

    I'd lean toward Dumba if you're in a league that counts Hits and Penalty Minutes and Barrie if it's something closer to a straight points pool as he has S. Elliott and EJ to contend with in Colorado.

    Dumba, Barrie, Trouba, Muzzin, Diaz and Weircioch (who really fell off the map quickly). I would have to do some more research to include Rielly in my rankings, but with Phaneuf, Franson and Gardiner already in the mix in Toronto, Rielly may have to "earn" (meaning no turnovers, right coach?) his offensive time. Coach may dangle PP TOI as a carrot to play better in Rielly's case...or he gives him the Gardiner treatment in the AHL.
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