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Thread: Phil the Thrill - A PPG Consistent Elite Winger

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    Default Phil the Thrill - A PPG Consistent Elite Winger

    Forever going to be mired in the controvery of "The Trade", Kessel has developed into a very talented offensive forward in the past two seasons. But everyone knows he can score (he's on pace for his 5th straight 30 goal pace season). What everyone seemingly doesn't seem to know is he's not that streaky player he used to be. So this thread is in abject disagreement with Kessel being labelled a windex wonder by Dobber.

    Last 153 games (or since Joffrey Lupul became a Leaf. That's the time Kessel took off), Kessel has put up 65 goals. Over an 82 game season, thats a 35 goal pace. More of the same from him but you already know that.

    In those same game he's put up 88 assists, or a 47 assist pace over 82 games. Since he's gotten linemates that had top 6 talent, he's been able to display his playmaking skills a little more.

    So if you did your math, that's an 82 point pace over 82 games. And this is now 151 games that Kessel has put up a ppg pace. Not 28, not 82, but 151 straight games and he's on pace to be a PPG for a second straight season.

    But what's more interesting is that Kessel hasn't been the usually super hot for 8-10 games and cold for 5 or 6. He's consistently put up points. Over those last 151 games, Kessel has had only three extended periods where he hasn't had points. Twice it lasted three games, and once (right after Lupul went down this year) it lasted four times. And in those 151 games, he's been held pointless only 47 times meaning he's put up points in over 68.88 percent of those games.

    Kessel is streaky as goal scorer like any other goal scorer is but as a point producer he's not the streaky player many make him out to be.
    14T BiWeekly H2H. 4 C/RW/LW, 6 D, 2 G
    Cats:G(3), A(1.5), PIM(0.2), PPP(1), SOG(0.2), GWG(1), SHP(2), Hits(0.3), BkS(0.4). W(2), SO(2), OTL(0.5), SV(0.2), GA(-1), L(-1). 9 Keepers in Bold. 12 player Farm team (skaters under 110, goalies under 80 gp) in italics

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    C - Backstrom, Getzlaf, N Foligno (LW/RW), Kotkaniemi, Carter (LW/RW)
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    D - Dahlin, Theodore, Ellis, Klingberg, Fox, Andersson
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    Prospects -Rossi, Turcotte, Kravstov, Tippett, Bouchard, Lehtonen, K Miller, Addison, DeSmith, Kahkonen, Ingram, Gustavsson

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    He isn't as streaky as let on but I do believe he has topped out as a ppg player, might get to 85 some year but not much more, either way I am happy as a Leafs fan!
    Straight Points keeper league. Keep 5 Forwards,3 defence,1 goalie.

    F: Nicklas Backstrom, Joe Thornton, Henrik Zetterberg, Zach Parise, Logan Couture

    D: Erik Karlsson, Alex Pietrangelo, Oliver Ekman-Larsson

    G: Sergei Bobrovsky

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    Before we go stroking this guys.... Let's see if this horribly one dimensional player can possible manage to finish a season as a plus player. I watch every single Leaf game and there is no forward in the League as far as I'm concerned as bad defensively. If your scoring at a ppg pace year after year and are a huge minus player year after year there is a huge problem. I'm not a huge fan of +/- but it is very telling in this case as far as I'm concerned. Go Leafs Go.
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    Great points, Kessel is a stud.

    As far as I'm concerned, Kessel continues to improve as a two-way player with each year of experience. He's not one dimensional, he was when he played for Boston.
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    . It
    Quote Originally Posted by dmvincent View Post
    Great points, Kessel is a stud.

    As far as I'm concerned, Kessel continues to improve as a two-way player with each year of experience. He's not one dimensional, he was when he played for Boston.
    Offensively he is very talented no doubt (better then I even give him credit for) but he has never initiated contact his entire time here (10 hits this year, none real) and he is absolutely brutal defensively. It is incomprehensible how anyone as intelligent as you could say other wise. He was on the ice for more ES goals against then any other forward in the NHL last year if I remember correctly. He is minus something like 40 in his time as a Leaf. Its just an absolute none truth. He is one of the worst defensive players in the league period. There is no measurable stat or video tape evidence in the world to suggest other wise. In point of fact every single measurable stat suggests that he is brutal defensively. I have watch probably 90 percent of the games he has played in since being here and do not even recall him making one impressive play defensivly . He is the very definition of one dimensional.
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    You or whom ever else wants to rebuttal that last statement can have the last word as I refuse to even discuss him as a defensive player again until he puts up a plus 1 number as a leaf. Argue the merits of plus minus all you want. I don't love the stat by any means but if you can not see a correlation of a guy putting up that many points and still being a minus player as a bad defensive player than....
    "My Name Is My Name" ~Marlo
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    Notes: This behavior is almost always found in people with very low I.Q's, whom have a very low sense of self worth. Impotence is also commonly linked to Grammar Nazi's.

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    I love how on these boards plus minus is used so selectively.

    If you like the player and it's bad, it's a meaningless stat and reflects bad goaltending/ team play (Lidstrom the year he last won the Norris with a -2) rather than poor defensive play.

    If you don't like the player and it's good, it's a meaningless stat and reflects good goaltending/ team play (Mike Green/ Kessel with the Bruins) rather than good defensive play.

    If you don't like the player and it's bad then it's a reflection of bad defensive play (Kessel on the Leafs last 3 years).

    If you like the player and it's good then it's a reflection of good defensive play (Seguin on Bruins).

    Bottom line is it may/ not be a good stat. However you can't use it selectively. It's more than likely that Kessel's plus minus is more of an indicator of the quality of team he is on rather than his own individual play. He didn't go from a 'great defensive player' in 2008-9 at +23 to a horrible one in 2010-11 at -20, he switched teams.

    Just as Eric Staal (-20 last year to +6 this year) and Alex Semin (-18 to +25 in 2008-9) didn't all of a sudden become Selke trophy winners. Their teams got better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lug Tread Lager View Post
    I love how on these boards plus minus is used so selectively.

    If you like the player and it's bad, it's a meaningless stat and reflects bad goaltending/ team play (Lidstrom the year he last won the Norris with a -2) rather than poor defensive play.

    If you don't like the player and it's good, it's a meaningless stat and reflects good goaltending/ team play (Mike Green/ Kessel with the Bruins) rather than good defensive play.

    If you don't like the player and it's bad then it's a reflection of bad defensive play (Kessel on the Leafs last 3 years).

    If you like the player and it's good then it's a reflection of good defensive play (Seguin on Bruins).

    Bottom line is it may/ not be a good stat. However you can't use it selectively. It's more than likely that Kessel's plus minus is more of an indicator of the quality of team he is on rather than his own individual play. He didn't go from a 'great defensive player' in 2008-9 at +23 to a horrible one in 2010-11 at -20, he switched teams.

    Just as Eric Staal (-20 last year to +6 this year) and Alex Semin (-18 to +25 in 2008-9) didn't all of a sudden become Selke trophy winners. Their teams got better.
    great to see people backing up their posts with facts. repped you.

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    And in fariness to Kessel if you want to say he's bad because he is a minus player, hes an even on the year right now
    Straight Points keeper league. Keep 5 Forwards,3 defence,1 goalie.

    F: Nicklas Backstrom, Joe Thornton, Henrik Zetterberg, Zach Parise, Logan Couture

    D: Erik Karlsson, Alex Pietrangelo, Oliver Ekman-Larsson

    G: Sergei Bobrovsky

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    Im sorry I can't. This thread is a joke. I didn't use any stat selectively I used 3 different stats over his entire time in the organization. You don't even need to use 1 stat over any period of time to know that Kessel is brutal in all other facets of the game (outside of scoring) just watch 1 single shift objectively. I'm sorry I can't even possibly comprehend how any person whom has ever watched even a handful of hockey games could possible imagine otherwise. Stick to commenting on fantasy hockey if you do.

    P.S

    "P.S. I love how these boards use plus/minus so selectively" Find a thread were I defend or critique the stat. You can't because I haven't until now. I say clearly in my post that it is a flawed stat but has some merit and is not completely useless. Unlike Kessel in the defensive zone and then use 2 other stats ( he hits nothing, ever and was on the ice for more GA then any other forward in the LEAGUE)

    Dodo he is a not a positive player either and is proving that plus/minus is a flawed stat every time he is on the ice and brings down his linemates plus/minus.

    This is actually infuriating me that I have to possibly defend my position that Kessel is bad defensively
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    1 last question? The G.M of Boston is arguably the best G.M in the game. Now explain to me how he would not even really consider resigning him after his ELC if he is anything but a one dimensional player. I don't recall there ever being a 30 goal scorer coming off there ELC were there team had no desire to keep them and shopped them like they were a..... let's see if Claude shops Seguin like he was a 2 Dollar hoe.
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    grammar Nazi
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    Notes: This behavior is almost always found in people with very low I.Q's, whom have a very low sense of self worth. Impotence is also commonly linked to Grammar Nazi's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbabybuda View Post
    Im sorry I can't. This thread is a joke. I didn't use any stat selectively I used 3 different stats over his entire time in the organization. You don't even need to use 1 stat over any period of time to know that Kessel is brutal in all other facets of the game (outside of scoring) just watch 1 single shift objectively. I'm sorry I can't even possibly comprehend how any person whom has ever watched even a handful of hockey games could possible imagine otherwise. Stick to commenting on fantasy hockey if you do.

    P.S

    "P.S. I love how these boards use plus/minus so selectively" Find a thread were I defend or critique the stat. You can't because I haven't until now. I say clearly in my post that it is a flawed stat but has some merit and is not completely useless. Unlike Kessel in the defensive zone and then use 2 other stats ( he hits nothing, ever and was on the ice for more GA then any other forward in the LEAGUE)

    Dodo he is a not a positive player either and is proving that plus/minus is a flawed stat every time he is on the ice and brings down his linemates plus/minus.

    This is actually infuriating me that I have to possibly defend my position that Kessel is bad defensively
    isnt the point of this thread to say kessel is a ppg winger? kessel obviously isnt gonna be a selke winner any time soon, but his defensive game has really picked up under carlyle. he was really one dimensional in the past, i'm not arguing that, no one can. but if you watch him as much as i have this year, you can tell his work ethic has changed.

    and dont even get me started on plus minus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by praba View Post
    isnt the point of this thread to say kessel is a ppg winger? kessel obviously isnt gonna be a selke winner any time soon, but his defensive game has really picked up under carlyle. he was really one dimensional in the past, i'm not arguing that, no one can. but if you watch him as much as i have this year, you can tell his work ethic has changed.

    and dont even get me started on plus minus.
    I don't love plus minus either Praba but to say it is useless is wrong and I watch as many Leaf games as anyone and do not see anything about his work ethic or defensive game being improved. I think it is a mirage. I'm sorry your right he is a great fantasy asset and I should have just stayed away from this thread as I despise him as a player and think our team would be better off without him...

    I'm banning myself from ever discussing Phil Kessel on these boards again. Even though outside of 2 other people on these boards I'm by far the most objective Leaf fan there is here, I'm not objective at all when discussing Kessel. I have a serious hate on for him and it is effecting my objectivity when looking at him. I realized that in the Parise/Kessel thread the other day when I told someone to take Parise over him when Kessel is clearly the better choice from a fantasy perspective.
    Last edited by bigbabybuda; April 14, 2013 at 1:25 PM.
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    Notes: This behavior is almost always found in people with very low I.Q's, whom have a very low sense of self worth. Impotence is also commonly linked to Grammar Nazi's.

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    Bigbad, to clarify my post, I was not specifically responding to your use of plus minus but by the variable use of it by those of us on the message boards in general. It may have seemed that way since I posted right after you, and I apologize for implicating you in my rant!

    I am neither defending or assaulting Kessel's defensive abilities. I am simply pointing out a general trend in how people (not you specifically) inconsistently apply plus minus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lug Tread Lager View Post
    Bigbad, to clarify my post, I was not specifically responding to your use of plus minus but by the variable use of it by those of us on the message boards in general. It may have seemed that way since I posted right after you, and I apologize for implicating you in my rant!

    I am neither defending or assaulting Kessel's defensive abilities. I am simply pointing out a general trend in how people (not you specifically) inconsistently apply plus minus.
    No harm, No foul bro.
    "My Name Is My Name" ~Marlo
    "I'm just a Gangster I suppose and I want my fu***** corners"~ Barksdale

    grammar Nazi
    Noun
    (slang, idiomatic) 1. A person who habitually corrects or criticizes the language usage of others, especially in situations where it is unnecessary, e.g. an informal conversation.
    Notes: This behavior is almost always found in people with very low I.Q's, whom have a very low sense of self worth. Impotence is also commonly linked to Grammar Nazi's.

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