Keeper leagues: solving the tanking problem

[behindthegeek]

I'm interested in getting some feedback on a problem that we've been facing in my keeper league for a few years now. The predominant strategy for winning now involves tanking in order to get last place and thus a high draft position in one year, then winning (or placing highly) the next year, then tanking again, etc. Not everyone does it, but enough people in our 10-person league do it that it is a perennial topic of discussion and angst.

I assume that many other leagues have the same problem. If so, how do you deal with it? Any creative solutions?

[TrueNorth]

We do a Draft Lottery similar to the NHL.

[Pengwin7]

A new thought:

The draft order for the upcoming year (2013-2014) is based on final standings of "drafted players only".

Nobody is going to tank their draft.
So you create a standings at end-of-every-year based on the draft.
Since this standings is based only on drafted players... it won't reflect any moves done after day 1.

Select the top forwards, defense, goalies - from each team's original start-of-year draft.
Create a standings.
The lowest team (which might reflect bad injuries) will get best pick.
The highest team (which could reflect good luck of not having injuries AND drafting good players) will have lowest pick.

[behindthegeek]

A new thought:

The draft order for the upcoming year (2013-2014) is based on final standings of "drafted players only".

Nobody is going to tank their draft.
So you create a standings at end-of-every-year based on the draft.
Since this standings is based only on drafted players... it won't reflect any moves done after day 1.

Select the top forwards, defense, goalies - from each team's original start-of-year draft.
Create a standings.

The lowest team (which might reflect bad injuries) will get best pick.
The highest team (which could reflect good luck of not having injuries AND drafting good players) will have lowest pick.

That's a really interesting system. But, it sounds like a practical nightmare, especially for a roto league such as this one. How much time does it take to do that?

[Pengwin7]

That's a really interesting system. But, it sounds like a practical nightmare, especially for a roto league such as this one. How much time does it take to do that?

I would think 1 hour, if you are good with excel.

Obviously, your league probably has everybody's original draft.
You grab their best players, download end-of-season stats into excel.
Total them up in each category.
Sort the categories, roto-style, with point-totals per standings.

[For ease of sort, you might say that each team's top players, per FantasyHockeyGeek rank, are used for the calculation. Top 6F/4D/2G... whatever your roster allocation.]

Easy, peasy. (if you have some Excel skills)

[behindthegeek]

We do a Draft Lottery similar to the NHL.

Yeah, that's been bounced around but rejected. The most common reason has been that, for teams that legitimately suck, they could lose their draft position to a team that's tanking (but just doesn't manage to get all the way down to the bottom).

[TrueNorth]

May be extreme but what about fines for GM's tanking? Or forefit of draft picks?

[behindthegeek]

May be extreme but what about fines for GM's tanking? Or forefit of draft picks?

Most of the trouble comes from defining tanking, and when a GM crosses the line between tanking and bad management (e.g. legitimately forgetting to dress the best guys rather than doing it on purpose). I think it's tough to bring in penalties before that's done.

[Loch]

Minimum Games played + weighted draft Lottery is how my league does it.

The teams that legit suck will end up at the bottom and thus get the best odds in the draft.

[robmyatt]

We've had this discussion in some of my leagues.

12 teams, only 8 make playoffs. Usually 2 tankers each year. Some call it assett management. Trading anything of value for any pick possible and basically gutting their team. They don't outright build a shit team from the beginning on purpose but once they realize they might not make the playoffs they start to "tank".

1. A lottery - it is weighted but doesn't guarantee a 1st overall pick. In our league the first overall pick has traditionally been the top entry draft player (Yak, Nuge, Hall, etc). However we also have a prospect draft after the regular draft. This year in one league we will now do the prospect draft first and the winner of the "consolation playoffs" (bottom 4) get the 1st overall pick. This means that everyone in the bottom 4 won't necessarily gut thier teams if they want to "win" the first overall pick.

[cappy76]

my league does a lottery system for all teams that don't make championship bracket for our prospect draft then we do the winner of the consolation brackett gets the 1st pick in the waiver draft.

We also do forfeiture of picks for tanking

[robmyatt]

Last place team pays for the entry fee of the 2nd last place team. That always makes things interesting. hahah.

There is also the option of the "motion of non-confidence". At any point in the season, if an owner truly believes that someone is managing their team in a manner that is detrimental to the competitive integrity of the league than they can raise the point. A discussion ensues and if 80% of the league feels the same way, then that person can be removed from the league, forfeit pick(s) or be given an opportunity to smarten up. I've never seen this used, but it is in our rules and it's enough of a deterrent that everyone stays very engaged and fields the best team they can.

[dejeanneret]

How many guys does your league keep? This is a drastic change, but the more keepers, the more shallow the draft and the less likely that a tanking strategy is going to help all that much from year to year.

We also do a draft lottery, and that's helped a bit. But the other, more obvious, potential solution: we make it perfectly clear that tanking is forbidden. The reason, which is probably fairly specific to head-to-head leagues, is not because we don't want guys "trying" to get a better draft pick, but because tanking has serious competitive consequences for the guys that are fighting tooth and nail to make the playoffs (e.g., 2 teams battling for a spot, one plays a team that is trying and scratches for everything he gets while the other plays a "tanker" and gets handed easy points).

So any time it has even remotely appeared that someone might be tanking (sitting high quality players for lesser ones, not benching/IR'ing injured guys, etc.), we start with an email/phone call legitimately checking in to see whether all is OK with that GM, his family, etc. If so, we remind him that he's screwing other guys who are trying to compete. That usually solves it.

Another instance, and the guy would likely get a more stern warning that he's at risk of being asked to leave the league for a guy who wants to meaningfully participate (we've got a waiting list of guys wanting in on the league, and the GMs in our league know that).

If it ever happened yet again, he'd be out of the league. In my mind, it's about league integrity, and we're fortunate that the guys in our league take that quite seriously (it's not a high money league or anything, just a small payout with lots of pride and bragging rights on the line).

[dejeanneret]

my league does a lottery system for all teams that don't make championship bracket for our prospect draft then we do the winner of the consolation brackett gets the 1st pick in the waiver draft.

This is a really interesting concept, a version of which I've employed successfully in my dynasty football league. Essentially, whoever doesn't make the playoffs gets put in a 2nd tier playoff bracket. Those teams play each other to determine the draft order at the top of the 2nd round (not the 1st, we leave that in reverse order of the standings).

[Mr. Guru]

We have a Lottery based off the NHL draft also.

We also have a rule: last and second last supply the draft with beer/booze (usually a couple cases and a bottle each)

3rd last and 4th last supply the draft with food....last year we had a lamb roast...($180)...the year before we roasted 12 chickens I believe. Plus salad, chips, dips.....etc

These teams need the best player in order to help their team, so if the league is a good group of friends, this is the way we solve our tanking issues. Tanking is frowned upon in our league, but if you are willing to tank and spend about an extra $100 at our draft party.....we don't care!

That's a minimum of about $350 going into our 'draft' party. So tank all you want!! I dare you!