New Pope

[VincentVega]

The real question here is should I trade 2 bishops and a priest to acquire the new pope? What's the scouting report on him? Keeper league, cats are prayers uttered, sins absolved and number of alter boys molested.

[lucifer316]

Using that binary thinking with regards to the word "prevention" is dishonest IMO.

in a sue happy country it is necessary that it is 'binary'

america is a binary country

you are with us or you are against us

our religion is good your religion is evil

etc

there is no in between in america no shades of gray

[Dakkster]

Courtesy of wendelclark17's friend:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTIorwtJbhE

[Dakkster]

in a sue happy country it is necessary that it is 'binary'

america is a binary country

you are with us or you are against us

our religion is good your religion is evil

etc

there is no in between in america no shades of gray

Yeah, I know... it's just too bad that litigation is affecting the language on your government sites

[lucifer316]

Yeah, I know... it's just too bad that litigation is affecting the language on your government sites

shit we sue our government as well and they tend to lose

we wouldnt be able to pay for all of our military toys if we had to pay out every time someone wore a jimmy hat and got the clap

well we would but we would owe china a shit load more money

[Ross The Boss Palmer]

Wait wait WAIT. Whoa whoa Weeeeeeee whoa. Clarification please.
Am I supposed to be touching altar boys with condoms or not?


Can we at least see how this guy handles the Vatican first? It's not like the Catholic Church is going away any time soon. We might as well hope for the best because all too often people expect the worst. Who knows what will happen? Jesus, said the pope.


My big piff is their library. I want it. Well, just want those ancient writings from Alexandria, Timbuktu, and the Middle East to be open and free. That seems far less likely than condoms, gay marriage, and abortion all being positive topics in the Vatican, but once again, who knows

[Rylant]

Dakkster, while I don't fully agree with you on this subject, I DO admire your passion and strong sense of right and wrong.

Rylant

[Dakkster]

Dakkster, while I don't fully agree with you on this subject, I DO admire your passion and strong sense of right and wrong.

Rylant

Heh, thanks, I call it "way too much time on my hands"

This is just a little thing. Right now I'm raging for real because of the direction Sweden is heading. I'm gearing up for some actual political activism leading up to our general election next year. Some friends have suggested that I should get into local politics but I've told them it wouldn't work, because I wouldn't be able to keep myself from going "**** you, you liar, here are some actual facts" whenever someone tries to do what politicians do best: slither around and avoid the facts. That wouldn't go over well... or it would be a smash hit and then I'd die from high blood pressure a year later

I like discussions that get a bit heated. It's intellectual spice IMO. But like in this case I just can't compromise. The Papacy and the shady dealings of the top of the Catholic church is just one of those things where I can't let it slide. It's just too damn evil and irredeemable and I go off even if I know I would do better to be a bit more tactful... **** it

[sparrowtrini]

The Pope, like the President, like most leaders are just puppets anyhow.

[Rylant]

Heh, thanks, I call it "way too much time on my hands"

This is just a little thing. Right now I'm raging for real because of the direction Sweden is heading. I'm gearing up for some actual political activism leading up to our general election next year. Some friends have suggested that I should get into local politics but I've told them it wouldn't work, because I wouldn't be able to keep myself from going "**** you, you liar, here are some actual facts" whenever someone tries to do what politicians do best: slither around and avoid the facts. That wouldn't go over well... or it would be a smash hit and then I'd die from high blood pressure a year later

I like discussions that get a bit heated. It's intellectual spice IMO. But like in this case I just can't compromise. The Papacy and the shady dealings of the top of the Catholic church is just one of those things where I can't let it slide. It's just too damn evil and irredeemable and I go off even if I know I would do better to be a bit more tactful... **** it

I do understand what you are saying, but I don't see it quite the same way as you. Yes, I agree that the Papacy has been shown to be corrupt more than once throughout history, and yes some of their actions could be labeled as "evil". You have said in this thread that the leadership of the Catholic Church is void of empathy, legitimacy and relevance. While I am not sure how legitimate it is, the Papacy has a HUGE influence over many people, which in my opinion, makes them VERY relevant.

I have read a fair bit about Pope Francis today, and everything I have read suggests that he may be the man to come in and help facilitate radical change in the Papacy. Reading his stance on the cover-ups and corruption makes me view the possibilities with cautious optimism. Let's be real; the Papacy isn't going away any time soon. If he can come in and help make a bad situation better, isn't that a good thing?

Rylant

[Dakkster]

I do understand what you are saying, but I don't see it quite the same way as you. Yes, I agree that the Papacy has been shown to be corrupt more than once throughout history, and yes some of their actions could be labeled as "evil". You have said in this thread that the leadership of the Catholic Church is void of empathy, legitimacy and relevance. While I am not sure how legitimate it is, the Papacy has a HUGE influence over many people, which in my opinion, makes them VERY relevant.

I have read a fair bit about Pope Francis today, and everything I have read suggests that he may be the man to come in and help facilitate radical change in the Papacy. Reading his stance on the cover-ups and corruption makes me view the possibilities with cautious optimism. Let's be real; the Papacy isn't going away any time soon. If he can come in and help make a bad situation better, isn't that a good thing?

Rylant

Baby steps, I guess. While it's good IF he actually does something about cover-ups and all that pedophilia business, there's still other clouds on the sky with him. You know, gay marriage, contraceptives... Those are the only ones I'm aware of right now, but knowing the Vatican I'm sure something else will pop up sooner or later. The gay marriage issue is "just" a big group of people not getting their due. Huge thing IMO, but I use "just" because it still doesn't involve thousands dying because of medieval views on condoms and how that affects the AIDS/HIV epidemic in Africa.

So again, I guess we'll have to be grateful for the baby steps, but there's still a long way to go.

[lockedge]

Wait wait WAIT. Whoa whoa Weeeeeeee whoa. Clarification please.
Am I supposed to be touching altar boys with condoms or not?


Can we at least see how this guy handles the Vatican first? It's not like the Catholic Church is going away any time soon. We might as well hope for the best because all too often people expect the worst. Who knows what will happen? Jesus, said the pope.


My big piff is their library. I want it. Well, just want those ancient writings from Alexandria, Timbuktu, and the Middle East to be open and free. That seems far less likely than condoms, gay marriage, and abortion all being positive topics in the Vatican, but once again, who knows

I'd also like for them to commit to helping the impoverished, as their holy book states they should be doing, and sell a lot of the millions or billions worth of relics and useless gold/gem-encrusted shit they've stockpiled on the backs of good, honest catholics over the years.

Like, honestly. How the hell is anyone supposed to believe some dude wearing all these gems and fancy clothes is going to help the homeless and those in war-torn areas to any significant degree? History shows he won't. I'd like for the church to stand up for their supposed morality once, and lose what's precious to them in order to help the rest of the world.

[Instant Karma]

The leadership of the Catholic church has no place in the 21st century. They are completely void of empathy, legitimacy and relevance. That's not an extreme position. It's just common sense in light of what those ****s are actually doing and in light of how modern we are as a society. They are an organization stuck AT LEAST 500 years in the past and they don't even follow the words of their supposed god. Unacceptable and pathetic.

Uh huh. Extremists and zealots are typically the last ones to recognize their own extremism and zealotry.

You may not have noticed, but the esteemed secular leaders of this planet aren't getting it right, either. The things that you find offensive with religion aren't symptomatic of religion, they're symptomatic of the human condition.

For instance, Sandusky did the exact same thing to Penn State that the pedophile priests did to the Catholic Church, by deliberately taking advantage of the same weaknesses and flaws in that organization.

[Dakkster]

Uh huh. Extremists and zealots are typically the last ones to recognize their own extremism and zealotry.

You may not have noticed, but the esteemed secular leaders of this planet aren't getting it right, either. The things that you find offensive with religion aren't symptomatic of religion, they're symptomatic of the human condition.

For instance, Sandusky did the exact same thing to Penn State that the pedophile priests did to the Catholic Church, by deliberately taking advantage of the same weaknesses and flaws in that organization.

Okay, so all the thousands of people recognizing the Catholic church's systematic protection of thousands of child molesters as evel are extremists and zealots. Alrighty then.

Wow. You are equating the Sandusky scandal to the Catholic church? That was the work of... you know what, I'm not even getting into this discussion, because it's just not worth it. Asinine argument. Just wow.

[Instant Karma]

Okay, so all the thousands of people recognizing the Catholic church's systematic protection of thousands of child molesters as evel are extremists and zealots. Alrighty then.

Wow. You are equating the Sandusky scandal to the Catholic church? That was the work of... you know what, I'm not even getting into this discussion, because it's just not worth it. Asinine argument. Just wow.

"Just wow". Typical Dakkster response.

Why is it that you assume that the world's Catholic population condones the protection of these priests that was perpetrated by a few high-ranking members of the church? Do you think that the bishops and cardinals consulted their congregations before going ahead with that?

I can tell you that there are dioceses out there that were very severely damaged by the pedophile scandal and it's aftermath, all because of the actions of a few individuals. I expect most of them still haven't recovered.

But you think that the typical lay Catholic approves of and endorses the way the bishops handled it, huh? I can tell you that the ones who were actually affected by it certainly do not.