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Thread: Erik Karlsson

  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by 150Swiftly View Post

    Achilles, I believe Cooke lifted his leg as damage control, as Karlsson already had positioning on him - it wasn't to gain an advantage but to mitigate a disadvantage in my opinion. I personally have used that method while playing defense against agile forwards. That being said, his leg came up very high.
    Thanks dude, I appreciate your point...but I still don't quite understand driving your skate down with force like he did. It seems negligent....I realize these guys are competing hard, but you should have a high level of awareness when it comes to your skate blade. Cooke's blade went down and forward right at his calf....very suspicious.
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    LW - E. Kane, Pacioretty, Zetterberg, Kusnetsov, Connolly, MacArthur,
    RW - Wheeler, Nyquist, Zibanejad, Stone, Boedker, Wingels, Atkinson
    D - Karlsson, Klingberg, Green, Niskanen, Schultz, Suter, Del Zotto, Hutton, C. Wideman
    G - Bobrovsky, Varlamov, Anderson, Mrazek



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  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Achilles View Post
    Thanks dude, I appreciate your point...but I still don't quite understand driving your skate down with force like he did. It seems negligent....I realize these guys are competing hard, but you should have a high level of awareness when it comes to your skate blade. Cooke's blade went down and forward right at his calf....very suspicious.
    No. Just no. Not "very suspicious". That's beyond silly. That's "ILLUMINATI RULES THE WORLD!!!" conspiracy theory ridiculous. It was an accident. End of story.
    GO WINGS!

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    I'm a Sens fan, and this definitly sucks. I don't believe Cooke had any intent, reckless perhaps, on purpose? Definitely not.

    Silver lining, this lowered Karlson's value considerably and I just got him via trade.

    now thats NICE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dakkster View Post
    No. Just no. Not "very suspicious". That's beyond silly. That's "ILLUMINATI RULES THE WORLD!!!" conspiracy theory ridiculous. It was an accident. End of story.
    An accident resulting from recklessness and putting another player in a dangerous situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Ev View Post
    An accident resulting from recklessness and putting another player in a dangerous situation.
    Of course, but never in a million years "very suspicious".
    GO WINGS!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dakkster View Post
    Of course, but never in a million years "very suspicious".
    I don't understand what you're saying.

    Recklessness means a conscious decision to not pay the required attention to someone else's well-being. To use an extreme example, firing a gun at someone without a specific intent to kill means you're reckless as to whether or not harm or death results from your action. In North America, that is sufficient to make you culpable for the homicide.

    If someone is "reckless", their actions can not really be called "accidental". An accident implies an absence of a culpable mental element. "Recklessness", as I understand the term, is a culpable mental element....albeit something less than subjective intent.

    I also don't understand why you write off my labelling of Cooke's intent as "conspiracy theory". That conclusion does not make any sense.

    The point is he raised his leg and stepped on someone else's leg. He knew Karlsson was in front of him, and he knew he had a blade on the bottom of his foot. Whether or not he intended to strike him with the leg is something only Cooke knows, and for anyone to confidently say that there was no intent is a mere expression of belief. It may be that experience and similar facts could lead to a factual inference being drawn, but at the end of the day it is still just belief.

    I find it curious that you are quick to agree that the action was reckless, but at the same time disrespectfully write off an assertion as to suspicion about Cooke's intent. If one accepts that Cooke was reckless, then the common ethical principles that inform the theory of criminal law leads to conclusion that he is culpable of wrong-doing and worthy of punishment. Calling his intent "suspicious" does not go this far, yet that is the assertion that you have a problem with.
    10-team Keeper. Everyone keeps 12 + 3 "young keepers" (players with less than 164 NHL games played), and 1G. Points for G (2), A (2), PIM (.1), Hit (.1) SHP(1), W(4), SO(8) Must dress 4C, 4LW, 4RW, 6D, 2G

    C - Tavares, Backstrom, Turris, Eichel
    LW - E. Kane, Pacioretty, Zetterberg, Kusnetsov, Connolly, MacArthur,
    RW - Wheeler, Nyquist, Zibanejad, Stone, Boedker, Wingels, Atkinson
    D - Karlsson, Klingberg, Green, Niskanen, Schultz, Suter, Del Zotto, Hutton, C. Wideman
    G - Bobrovsky, Varlamov, Anderson, Mrazek



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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Ev View Post
    An accident resulting from recklessness and putting another player in a dangerous situation.
    I agree....

    Now its time to put this thread to rest.

    Not a Sens fan and hate to see this happen to a such a great player. Id hate to be Sens fan right now. A season that started out so promising and now this.

    Spezza
    Karlsson
    Cowen(and yes I consider that loss significant too)

    But you know its time to move on. Its not worth agravating the situation anymore. Not doing anyone any good anymore.

    What a team you are going to have in the future. I only wish my team the Leafs could be where you are in terms of upside. Whether it be the market not allowing a total rebuild or just some stupid decisions(Bit of both) who knows.

    How many times will the Sens meet the Oilers in the finals down the road.

    And to just imagine what great hockey that will be with all that talent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparrowtrini View Post
    I agree....

    Now its time to put this thread to rest.

    Not a Sens fan and hate to see this happen to a such a great player. Id hate to be Sens fan right now. A season that started out so promising and now this.

    Spezza
    Karlsson
    Cowen(and yes I consider that loss significant too)

    But you know its time to move on. Its not worth agravating the situation anymore. Not doing anyone any good anymore.

    What a team you are going to have in the future. I only wish my team the Leafs could be where you are in terms of upside. Whether it be the market not allowing a total rebuild or just some stupid decisions(Bit of both) who knows.

    How many times will the Sens meet the Oilers in the finals down the road.

    And to just imagine what great hockey that will be with all that talent.
    Sparrow, you should consider a job as a diplomat.

    Agreed, it's time to stop.
    10-team Keeper. Everyone keeps 12 + 3 "young keepers" (players with less than 164 NHL games played), and 1G. Points for G (2), A (2), PIM (.1), Hit (.1) SHP(1), W(4), SO(8) Must dress 4C, 4LW, 4RW, 6D, 2G

    C - Tavares, Backstrom, Turris, Eichel
    LW - E. Kane, Pacioretty, Zetterberg, Kusnetsov, Connolly, MacArthur,
    RW - Wheeler, Nyquist, Zibanejad, Stone, Boedker, Wingels, Atkinson
    D - Karlsson, Klingberg, Green, Niskanen, Schultz, Suter, Del Zotto, Hutton, C. Wideman
    G - Bobrovsky, Varlamov, Anderson, Mrazek



    My all time favourites:


  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Achilles View Post
    I don't understand what you're saying.

    Recklessness means a conscious decision to not pay the required attention to someone else's well-being. To use an extreme example, firing a gun at someone without a specific intent to kill means you're reckless as to whether or not harm or death results from your action. In North America, that is sufficient to make you culpable for the homicide.

    If someone is "reckless", their actions can not really be called "accidental". An accident implies an absence of a culpable mental element. "Recklessness", as I understand the term, is a culpable mental element....albeit something less than subjective intent.

    I also don't understand why you write off my labelling of Cooke's intent as "conspiracy theory". That conclusion does not make any sense.

    The point is he raised his leg and stepped on someone else's leg. He knew Karlsson was in front of him, and he knew he had a blade on the bottom of his foot. Whether or not he intended to strike him with the leg is something only Cooke knows, and for anyone to confidently say that there was no intent is a mere expression of belief. It may be that experience and similar facts could lead to a factual inference being drawn, but at the end of the day it is still just belief.

    I find it curious that you are quick to agree that the action was reckless, but at the same time disrespectfully write off an assertion as to suspicion about Cooke's intent. If one accepts that Cooke was reckless, then the common ethical principles that inform the theory of criminal law leads to conclusion that he is culpable of wrong-doing and worthy of punishment. Calling his intent "suspicious" does not go this far, yet that is the assertion that you have a problem with.
    To suggest it was "suspicious" is to suggest the potential of intent. I would agree that suspicious isn't the right word. Reckless? Absofreakinlutely.

    You can quite easily describe something as "reckless" without it being suspicious. Can something be suspicious and reckless? Of course, but to suggest that something can't be reckless without carrying suspicion just isn't right. Considering something as suspicious, or not, has to be quite subjective, if you ask me.
    Last edited by ridinryan44; February 16, 2013 at 3:05 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ridinryan44 View Post
    To suggest it was "suspicious" is to suggest the potential of intent. I would agree that suspicious isn't the right word. Reckless? Absofreakinlutely.

    You can quite easily describe something as "reckless" without it being suspicious. Can something be suspicious and reckless? Of course, but to suggest that something can't be reckless without carrying suspicion just isn't right. Considering something as suspicious, or not, has to be quite subjective, if you ask me.
    Thank you.
    GO WINGS!

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    Already had several
    16 Team Dynasty,Daily H2H (Points)
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    G-Andersen,Gibson,Bernier,Ward
    Fm-Samuelsson,Prince,Connor,Guryanov,B.Lemieux,
    Kylington,Pulock,Schmaltz,Gillies,Sorokin

  13. #223
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    As bad as Phaneuf and Grabner for Karlsson? Wow!
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    G (1): Holtby

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  14. #224
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    That song is from "Karlsson på taket" (Karlsson on the roof), written by Astrid Lindgren, the woman who wrote Pippi Longstocking and looooaaaads of other beloved children's stories. I always hated that song because the character was the most annoying, selfish, lying trickster ever.
    GO WINGS!

  15. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by ridinryan44 View Post
    To suggest it was "suspicious" is to suggest the potential of intent. I would agree that suspicious isn't the right word. Reckless? Absofreakinlutely.

    You can quite easily describe something as "reckless" without it being suspicious. Can something be suspicious and reckless? Of course, but to suggest that something can't be reckless without carrying suspicion just isn't right. Considering something as suspicious, or not, has to be quite subjective, if you ask me.
    I know I agreed that we should put the thread to rest, but I'm going to respond to this. You're missing the point of my posts above. Recklessness = intent. It's not the same as specific intent to cut, but it is still a culpable mental element connected to the action that attracts moral blameworthiness. That's simple ethics. If you act in a matter wherein it is obvious to any reasonable person that your action can cause harm, and are recklessness as to whether or not that harm ensues, then you are culpable for whatever harm results. You are not "innocent".

    To say it is "suspicious" merely suggests that there is a possibility of either specific intent or the somewhat lesser form of intent known as recklessness.

    And yes, I have that suspicion. I've watched the replay many times and it is very possible that he intended to step on Karlsson. Can I prove it? No. That's why I said he shouldn't be punished.

    Calling it a "conspiracy theory" was simply a rhetorical tool to dismiss the point without actually considering it on its merits. Perhaps it's an epistomological point, but claiming it was "obviously an accident" in this circumstances is not a statement of fact, but rather a statement of belief.

    You can believe it was accident. Hell, the majority of people can. Just don't mistake that as any more than a conclusion of belief based on the available evidence. It is not a statement of absolute truth that allows one to denigrate those who are drawing a different, but still logically permissible, conclusion based on the same evidence.
    Last edited by Achilles; February 16, 2013 at 1:10 PM. Reason: Typos
    10-team Keeper. Everyone keeps 12 + 3 "young keepers" (players with less than 164 NHL games played), and 1G. Points for G (2), A (2), PIM (.1), Hit (.1) SHP(1), W(4), SO(8) Must dress 4C, 4LW, 4RW, 6D, 2G

    C - Tavares, Backstrom, Turris, Eichel
    LW - E. Kane, Pacioretty, Zetterberg, Kusnetsov, Connolly, MacArthur,
    RW - Wheeler, Nyquist, Zibanejad, Stone, Boedker, Wingels, Atkinson
    D - Karlsson, Klingberg, Green, Niskanen, Schultz, Suter, Del Zotto, Hutton, C. Wideman
    G - Bobrovsky, Varlamov, Anderson, Mrazek



    My all time favourites:


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