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Thread: Erik Karlsson

  1. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Ev View Post
    Not intentional. Bit reckless. League got it right. But the Pens might want to sit Cooke the next game.

    Murray's comments are justified though. The team gets screwed so much by the refs and the league, he can't hold it back for much longer. Let the guy vent.
    CLassless comments like that are never justified. You are supposed to be the head of a team and are supposed to be above all of that petty crap. It's the thing I hated most about Burke in Toronto. Know when to shut up and take the high road.
    Last edited by sd1976; February 14, 2013 at 3:58 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 150Swiftly View Post
    Not really. Since Cooke wasn't doing anything wrong - really, he wasn't, this would be a better analogy:

    There was a car accident with a casualty, but no one was at fault. However, the person that didn't die was a notorious puppy killer, and therefore he is a real piece of **** for getting into that accident.
    Um, no, not exactly. In your analogy, the "puppy killing" is totally unrelated to the matter at hand (the suspicion of reckless driving).

    That's not the case here. Cooke's past offenses involve serious injuries to other (better) players, intentional or otherwise.

    So, in the case of this particular analogy, it would be more apt to say that the survivor had a prior record of reckless driving episodes.
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  3. #198
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    Well, I for one have had enough Karlsson talk already. Hopefully everyone starts moving on to other news soon-- it's all they are talking about on NHL radio, all day long. I'm sick of thinking about the injury... makes my tendon hurt.


    Spezza or no Spezza, Karlsson or no Karlsson, the Sens are far away from being a contending team. Not sure why the words "dynasty" and "Senators" are being used in the same sentence. Half of that roster belongs in the AHL in my opinion.
    Karlsson and Spezza should focus on getting healthy and the Sens should focus on trying to put forth a better brand of hockey because quite frankly they are a two-man team, and those two men are gone all year. Even with those two guys in the lineup, Anderson is the only reason they've won games. Next year they may be ready for a playoff spot, I hope. In the meantime, let the kids play and mature, but I really hope the talk just doesn't keep coming back to Karlsson and Spezza all season long. Injuries happen and you have to move forward.

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    Don't underestimate the impact of Spezza and Karlsson, and also Cowen. That team was guaranteed playoffs and could have sniffed Boston. The East is garbage. As for this two or three-man team, well that's Pittsburgh to a tee yet they are considered contenders every year. Hell Philly is always predicted to contend yet they are garbage yet again this year.

    You put Erik Karlsson on any team and they become contenders.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Instant Karma View Post
    Um, no, not exactly. In your analogy, the "puppy killing" is totally unrelated to the matter at hand (the suspicion of reckless driving).

    That's not the case here. Cooke's past offenses involve serious injuries to other (better) players, intentional or otherwise.

    So, in the case of this particular analogy, it would be more apt to say that the survivor had a prior record of reckless driving episodes.

    Ok, my comment wasn't taken the way it was meant to be, and that's my fault. Instead of saying "a better analogy," I should have said "a more valid bad analogy."

    I was, in a sarcastic manner, alluding to the fact that there was no crime in the first place. Your analogy is accurate, mine was intended to expose the initial analogy for suggesting that Cooke not only committed an illegal offense but that it was also intentional. My comment was meant to be absurd. Some people here had an issue with my comment, and reading it again, I can recognize that I failed to communicate properly. So I'll just say this:

    The speculation is warranted, given his history. However, I don't believe that there was a crime committed, so to question whether or not there was intention is unnecessary. You can suggest that he was going for a slew foot, but there is no evidence of foul play. I don't doubt that this type of play will be illuminated within the next few days as it isn't uncommon for both fore-checkers and d-men alike to use this method to restrict mobility.
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  6. #201
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    I've read a few posts, on this thread and others, absolutely flaming nameless individuals for claiming that Cooke intended to injure Karlsson. It is noteworthy that I don't think anyone said that on the thread, and the media responses I've seen have all been totally behind the "freak accident" on a "routine hockey play" narrative. What bothers me are the claims that anyone who even thinks it was intentional are "asinine" or "idiots". This type of response pisses me off, and it has compelled me to write a brief response.

    I am not convinced it was intentional. But I am equally unconvinced that it was an accident. The video is not conclusive either way. There is only one person who can be 100% sure one way or the other. To denigrate a viewpoint contrary to your own as stupid when the reality is that there is no solid foundation for either side is pretty weak.

    I get it. "They were engaged early". "He was trying the hit and pin". He couldn't have the body control...and so on. Sorry, but I don't buy it. I can't say it was intentional, but none of the arguments that I've heard exonerate Cooke either.

    Only Cooke knows for sure.

    Lifting the leg like he did is questionable in its own right. If he's using his leg to apply force to Karlsson and pin him to the corner, you can understand lifting the leg. However it's wrong to say it gives Cooke "leverage", because it actually puts him at a mechanical disadvantage if Karlsson pushes back with any amount of force. It also doesn't make sense why he drove his foot forward and down with enough force to cut the tendon.

    Some have called it "reckless". If that's true, then he should be penalized. Recklessness, while not quite as morally blameworthy as full intent, is still sufficient in criminal law to establishmens rea, and the standard of proof in criminal justice is higher than employment discipline. It sounds like the NHL didn't feel it was reckless, or discipline would have been imposed.(however when it comes to supplemental discipline, the NHL has very little credibility).

    I haven't played hockey in years, but it seemed strange to me to lift your leg, then drive it down and forward. You have to know you have a blade under your foot, and it seems, at least, negligent to do so.

    Another important point that was made above is that while he may not have intended to cut the achilles, he may have intended to step on him.

    Look, I admit I'm pissed off. I admit I have an emotional investment in both Karlsson and the Senators. However that doesn't mean my brain shuts off. It doesn't mean I lose the capacity for rational analysis.

    My conclusion at this point is that I just don't know. Because of that, I am not mad there was no discipline on Cooke.

    But there's a huge difference between "inconclusive" and "this is obviously an accident and if you think otherwise, you're an irrational Sens' fan or an idiot". I think that sentiment is rooted in a natural, deeply engrained and possibly subconscious desire to not want to believe a player would do something like that to another player. Understandable, but not "factual".

    Only one person really knows.

    On another topic, I was interested in the mandatory Kevlar socks suggestion. Problem is, if you do that on the basis of player safety, at some point the same logic will apply to full face protection in hockey. I know I'm ready for that, but I bet a huge percentage of fans will disagree with me.

    As for Cooke, if it was an accident, we need to move on. He shouldn't have to fight or "pay the piper" if it was an accident. However if it was recklessness - huge suspension. If intentional, he should be prosecuted criminally.
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  7. #202
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    Well said Achilles.

    I seen it the same way and of course he didn't intentionally sever his achilles, but, I think he did mean to give him a shot in the back of the leg, and I guess thats okay if you get away with it. What gave this away for me was, he didn't seem surprised when he heard Karlsson screaming in pain. He skated away as if he was expecting some kind of response and looked guilty doing it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by praba View Post
    Matt Cooke with the skate to his Achilles tendon.

    so...seth jones or nathan mackinnon? lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by 150Swiftly View Post
    Ok, my comment wasn't taken the way it was meant to be, and that's my fault. Instead of saying "a better analogy," I should have said "a more valid bad analogy."

    I was, in a sarcastic manner, alluding to the fact that there was no crime in the first place. Your analogy is accurate, mine was intended to expose the initial analogy for suggesting that Cooke not only committed an illegal offense but that it was also intentional. My comment was meant to be absurd. Some people here had an issue with my comment, and reading it again, I can recognize that I failed to communicate properly. So I'll just say this:

    The speculation is warranted, given his history. However, I don't believe that there was a crime committed, so to question whether or not there was intention is unnecessary. You can suggest that he was going for a slew foot, but there is no evidence of foul play. I don't doubt that this type of play will be illuminated within the next few days as it isn't uncommon for both fore-checkers and d-men alike to use this method to restrict mobility.

    Ok, that's clear now, but you're still missing the point. I frankly don't care all that much about, in this particular instance, whether it was intentional or not.


    Cooke's chickens are coming home to roost, as the saying goes. I'm simply not going to feel too sorry for him if he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. And you know what? You shouldn't, either. Cooke made his bed and now he's going to have to lie in it.

    Here's another old saying, as long as I'm dishing out cliches:

    Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, but three times is a trend.



    Quibbling over whether this particular instance was intentional or not is just a lot of prevarication as far as I'm concerned.
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    Well I'd say that's another point entirely. I've hated Cooke more than anyone in the league since he ended Savard's career. I'm not defending him, only this action. If we are speaking of revenge, he has a lot coming.

    Achilles, I believe Cooke lifted his leg as damage control, as Karlsson already had positioning on him - it wasn't to gain an advantage but to mitigate a disadvantage in my opinion. I personally have used that method while playing defense against agile forwards. That being said, his leg came up very high.
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    Great take on seeing that injury take place from Grantland's Katie Baker:

    I've seen Olympic weightlifters' arms pull right out of their sockets, overwhelmed by the weight they're supposed to be bearing. I've watched Lindsey Vonn's knee all but explode and heard her anguished screams carry up the mountain she had just tumbled down. I've seen Clint Malarchuk's jugular pumping out blood — so much that if he'd been in the opposite net, the one farther away from the trainer's room, he probably would have been dead.

    Joe Theismann's leg famously broke when I was just 2, but it's impossible to escape that awful footage — it's replayed, usually with warnings to close your eyes if you're easily queasy, all the time. My special man friend in college got injured while playing lacrosse; everyone thought his shoe had fallen off, but it was just that his whole foot had wrenched around backward, not unlike what happened to Willis McGahee's poor knee.

    I've seen broken noses and pucks to the eye and kicks to the balls and enough heads snapping back after hitting the field or the ice or the court or the boards to give me a sympathy concussion. And yet, having watched all these things, there's really no injury that affects me on a more visceral level than one that involves an Achilles. Even thinking about it makes me wince in prolonged Peter Griffin–style pain. Maybe it's some deep-seated Greek mythology that I've over-internalized, or maybe it's just that unlike the ligaments in your knee, or the discs in your back, or the depths of your brain, your Achilles is always tangibly there, reminding you, every time you put on your shoes or pull up your socks, of all the work it can and does do.
    Her stuff is pretty redundant for most Canadians and definitely for those of us obsessed enough to frequent the Dobber Forums but still I can't help but agree with how revolting I found viewing that injury to be.

    Barf! Just... Barf!

    Like how does 70% of it get cut? So there's still some of it holding together like the last threads of a worn out rubber band? Oh god. Why am I describing this...
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  12. #207
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    can we all say ouch much?
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  13. #208
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    just saw an article on NBC sports. "Ottawa Owner says Cooke should not be in league"


    HA! what a joke. I hated Cooke forever, but he has shaped up IMO.
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  14. #209
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    he means he should have been kicked out a long time ago, which most people agree with

    also he's back to his 100 PIM pace

    actually never mind that's stupid, 10 of those came in Wednesday's game for him doing nothing.

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    The big money league that I help my buddy out with had Karlsson.
    13-team. Top 6F/4D/2G by end-of-season-point-totals for each player.
    We won it all last year.

    In that pool, by relative difference, Karlsson was the most valuable guy.

    Just wanted to say... I feel the fantasy-hockey-pain of this injury.
    One pool down... 7/8 left with a shot.

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