Page 15 of 16 FirstFirst ... 5 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 LastLast
Results 211 to 225 of 238

Thread: Erik Karlsson

  1. #211
    Achilles's Avatar
    Achilles is offline
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    852
    Location
    Regina SK
    Rep Power
    18

    Dobber Sports Initiate

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 150Swiftly View Post

    Achilles, I believe Cooke lifted his leg as damage control, as Karlsson already had positioning on him - it wasn't to gain an advantage but to mitigate a disadvantage in my opinion. I personally have used that method while playing defense against agile forwards. That being said, his leg came up very high.
    Thanks dude, I appreciate your point...but I still don't quite understand driving your skate down with force like he did. It seems negligent....I realize these guys are competing hard, but you should have a high level of awareness when it comes to your skate blade. Cooke's blade went down and forward right at his calf....very suspicious.
    10-team Keeper. Everyone keeps 12 + 1 G + 3 "young keepers" (players with less than 164 NHL games played), and 1G. Points for G (2), A (2), PIM (.2), Hit (.2), Blk (.2) SHP(1), W(4), SO(8) Must dress 4C, 4LW, 4RW, 6D, 2G

    C - Crosby, Backstrom, Kuznetsov, Eichel, Johansen
    LW - E. Kane, Drouin, Schenn, Miller, Foligno, Zucker
    RW - Wheeler, Stone, Lindholm, Oshie, Tolvanen
    D - Karlsson, Carlson, Dumba, Nurse, Ceci, Pionk, Larsson, Montour
    G - Murray, Quick, Koskinen, Blackwood, Georgiev

    Minors - Turcotte, Bouchard, Kaprizov

  2. #212
    Dakkster's Avatar
    Dakkster is offline
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    11,669
    Location
    Halmstad, Sweden
    Rep Power
    50

    Dobber Sports Juggernaut

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Achilles View Post
    Thanks dude, I appreciate your point...but I still don't quite understand driving your skate down with force like he did. It seems negligent....I realize these guys are competing hard, but you should have a high level of awareness when it comes to your skate blade. Cooke's blade went down and forward right at his calf....very suspicious.
    No. Just no. Not "very suspicious". That's beyond silly. That's "ILLUMINATI RULES THE WORLD!!!" conspiracy theory ridiculous. It was an accident. End of story.
    GO WINGS!

  3. #213
    SK47's Avatar
    SK47 is offline
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    800
    Location
    Newcastle, Ontario
    Rep Power
    16

    Dobber Sports Initiate

    Default

    I'm a Sens fan, and this definitly sucks. I don't believe Cooke had any intent, reckless perhaps, on purpose? Definitely not.

    Silver lining, this lowered Karlson's value considerably and I just got him via trade.

    now thats NICE

  4. #214
    Big Ev's Avatar
    Big Ev is offline
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    17,867
    Rep Power
    0

    Banned

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dakkster View Post
    No. Just no. Not "very suspicious". That's beyond silly. That's "ILLUMINATI RULES THE WORLD!!!" conspiracy theory ridiculous. It was an accident. End of story.
    An accident resulting from recklessness and putting another player in a dangerous situation.

  5. #215
    Dakkster's Avatar
    Dakkster is offline
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    11,669
    Location
    Halmstad, Sweden
    Rep Power
    50

    Dobber Sports Juggernaut

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Ev View Post
    An accident resulting from recklessness and putting another player in a dangerous situation.
    Of course, but never in a million years "very suspicious".
    GO WINGS!

  6. #216
    Achilles's Avatar
    Achilles is offline
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    852
    Location
    Regina SK
    Rep Power
    18

    Dobber Sports Initiate

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dakkster View Post
    Of course, but never in a million years "very suspicious".
    I don't understand what you're saying.

    Recklessness means a conscious decision to not pay the required attention to someone else's well-being. To use an extreme example, firing a gun at someone without a specific intent to kill means you're reckless as to whether or not harm or death results from your action. In North America, that is sufficient to make you culpable for the homicide.

    If someone is "reckless", their actions can not really be called "accidental". An accident implies an absence of a culpable mental element. "Recklessness", as I understand the term, is a culpable mental element....albeit something less than subjective intent.

    I also don't understand why you write off my labelling of Cooke's intent as "conspiracy theory". That conclusion does not make any sense.

    The point is he raised his leg and stepped on someone else's leg. He knew Karlsson was in front of him, and he knew he had a blade on the bottom of his foot. Whether or not he intended to strike him with the leg is something only Cooke knows, and for anyone to confidently say that there was no intent is a mere expression of belief. It may be that experience and similar facts could lead to a factual inference being drawn, but at the end of the day it is still just belief.

    I find it curious that you are quick to agree that the action was reckless, but at the same time disrespectfully write off an assertion as to suspicion about Cooke's intent. If one accepts that Cooke was reckless, then the common ethical principles that inform the theory of criminal law leads to conclusion that he is culpable of wrong-doing and worthy of punishment. Calling his intent "suspicious" does not go this far, yet that is the assertion that you have a problem with.
    10-team Keeper. Everyone keeps 12 + 1 G + 3 "young keepers" (players with less than 164 NHL games played), and 1G. Points for G (2), A (2), PIM (.2), Hit (.2), Blk (.2) SHP(1), W(4), SO(8) Must dress 4C, 4LW, 4RW, 6D, 2G

    C - Crosby, Backstrom, Kuznetsov, Eichel, Johansen
    LW - E. Kane, Drouin, Schenn, Miller, Foligno, Zucker
    RW - Wheeler, Stone, Lindholm, Oshie, Tolvanen
    D - Karlsson, Carlson, Dumba, Nurse, Ceci, Pionk, Larsson, Montour
    G - Murray, Quick, Koskinen, Blackwood, Georgiev

    Minors - Turcotte, Bouchard, Kaprizov

  7. #217
    Rep Power
    30

    Dobber Sports Icon

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Ev View Post
    An accident resulting from recklessness and putting another player in a dangerous situation.
    I agree....

    Now its time to put this thread to rest.

    Not a Sens fan and hate to see this happen to a such a great player. Id hate to be Sens fan right now. A season that started out so promising and now this.

    Spezza
    Karlsson
    Cowen(and yes I consider that loss significant too)

    But you know its time to move on. Its not worth agravating the situation anymore. Not doing anyone any good anymore.

    What a team you are going to have in the future. I only wish my team the Leafs could be where you are in terms of upside. Whether it be the market not allowing a total rebuild or just some stupid decisions(Bit of both) who knows.

    How many times will the Sens meet the Oilers in the finals down the road.

    And to just imagine what great hockey that will be with all that talent.

  8. #218
    Achilles's Avatar
    Achilles is offline
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    852
    Location
    Regina SK
    Rep Power
    18

    Dobber Sports Initiate

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sparrowtrini View Post
    I agree....

    Now its time to put this thread to rest.

    Not a Sens fan and hate to see this happen to a such a great player. Id hate to be Sens fan right now. A season that started out so promising and now this.

    Spezza
    Karlsson
    Cowen(and yes I consider that loss significant too)

    But you know its time to move on. Its not worth agravating the situation anymore. Not doing anyone any good anymore.

    What a team you are going to have in the future. I only wish my team the Leafs could be where you are in terms of upside. Whether it be the market not allowing a total rebuild or just some stupid decisions(Bit of both) who knows.

    How many times will the Sens meet the Oilers in the finals down the road.

    And to just imagine what great hockey that will be with all that talent.
    Sparrow, you should consider a job as a diplomat.

    Agreed, it's time to stop.
    10-team Keeper. Everyone keeps 12 + 1 G + 3 "young keepers" (players with less than 164 NHL games played), and 1G. Points for G (2), A (2), PIM (.2), Hit (.2), Blk (.2) SHP(1), W(4), SO(8) Must dress 4C, 4LW, 4RW, 6D, 2G

    C - Crosby, Backstrom, Kuznetsov, Eichel, Johansen
    LW - E. Kane, Drouin, Schenn, Miller, Foligno, Zucker
    RW - Wheeler, Stone, Lindholm, Oshie, Tolvanen
    D - Karlsson, Carlson, Dumba, Nurse, Ceci, Pionk, Larsson, Montour
    G - Murray, Quick, Koskinen, Blackwood, Georgiev

    Minors - Turcotte, Bouchard, Kaprizov

  9. #219
    ridinryan44's Avatar
    ridinryan44 is offline
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    5,947
    Location
    British Columbia
    Rep Power
    40

    Dobber Sports Sage

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Achilles View Post
    I don't understand what you're saying.

    Recklessness means a conscious decision to not pay the required attention to someone else's well-being. To use an extreme example, firing a gun at someone without a specific intent to kill means you're reckless as to whether or not harm or death results from your action. In North America, that is sufficient to make you culpable for the homicide.

    If someone is "reckless", their actions can not really be called "accidental". An accident implies an absence of a culpable mental element. "Recklessness", as I understand the term, is a culpable mental element....albeit something less than subjective intent.

    I also don't understand why you write off my labelling of Cooke's intent as "conspiracy theory". That conclusion does not make any sense.

    The point is he raised his leg and stepped on someone else's leg. He knew Karlsson was in front of him, and he knew he had a blade on the bottom of his foot. Whether or not he intended to strike him with the leg is something only Cooke knows, and for anyone to confidently say that there was no intent is a mere expression of belief. It may be that experience and similar facts could lead to a factual inference being drawn, but at the end of the day it is still just belief.

    I find it curious that you are quick to agree that the action was reckless, but at the same time disrespectfully write off an assertion as to suspicion about Cooke's intent. If one accepts that Cooke was reckless, then the common ethical principles that inform the theory of criminal law leads to conclusion that he is culpable of wrong-doing and worthy of punishment. Calling his intent "suspicious" does not go this far, yet that is the assertion that you have a problem with.
    To suggest it was "suspicious" is to suggest the potential of intent. I would agree that suspicious isn't the right word. Reckless? Absofreakinlutely.

    You can quite easily describe something as "reckless" without it being suspicious. Can something be suspicious and reckless? Of course, but to suggest that something can't be reckless without carrying suspicion just isn't right. Considering something as suspicious, or not, has to be quite subjective, if you ask me.
    Last edited by ridinryan44; February 16, 2013 at 2:05 AM.
    10tm Dynasty Lg - $96M CAP
    G A PTS +/- PIM PPP SOG W GAA SV% SO

    C: Barkov, Eichel, McDavid
    RW: P. Kane, Okposo
    LW: E. Kane, Couture
    D: Subban, Byfuglien, Faulk, Vatanen, Morgan Reilly
    G: Schneider, Gibson/Andersen
    UTIL: Kuznetsov, Kadri, Little, Stone


    Farm
    D: J. Schultz, Sekera, Hanifin, Hamonic
    F: Spooner, Silfverberg, Konecny, Roussell
    G: F. Andersen/Gibson, Mason, Ward, Anderson


    Prospect:
    F - D Strome, Burakovsky, Raantanen, Bjorkstrand
    D - Ryan Murphy

  10. #220
    Dakkster's Avatar
    Dakkster is offline
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    11,669
    Location
    Halmstad, Sweden
    Rep Power
    50

    Dobber Sports Juggernaut

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ridinryan44 View Post
    To suggest it was "suspicious" is to suggest the potential of intent. I would agree that suspicious isn't the right word. Reckless? Absofreakinlutely.

    You can quite easily describe something as "reckless" without it being suspicious. Can something be suspicious and reckless? Of course, but to suggest that something can't be reckless without carrying suspicion just isn't right. Considering something as suspicious, or not, has to be quite subjective, if you ask me.
    Thank you.
    GO WINGS!

  11. #221
    Big Ev's Avatar
    Big Ev is offline
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    17,867
    Rep Power
    0

    Banned

  12. #222
    PrairieDog's Avatar
    PrairieDog is offline
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    6,799
    Location
    A Pale Blue Dot
    Rep Power
    50

    Dobber Sports Icon

    Default



    Already had several
    12 Team Dynasty, H2H (points)
    Dress 2C, 4W, 1F, 4D, 1G (Daily)
    G (3), A (2), STP (1), SHOG (1), +/- (0.5), SOG (0.2), Hits (0.2), Blk (0.2), FOW (0.1); W (5), SO (2), Sv (0.2), GA (-1)

    C - Draisaitl (W), Hughes, Larkin, Trochek
    W - T.Thompson (C), Pastrnak, Reinhart, Batherson, Nichushkin, Duchene (C), Zuccarello
    D - Dahlin, Theodore, Bouchard, Faber, Werenski, Skjei
    G - Jarry, Gustavsson, Montembault
    Fm - Bordeleau, Barlow, Lucius, G.Perreault, Luneau, Perunovich, Nikishin

  13. #223
    bumchilly25's Avatar
    bumchilly25 is offline
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    3,407
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
    Rep Power
    35

    Dobber Sports Expert

    Default

    As bad as Phaneuf and Grabner for Karlsson? Wow!
    12 -Team Yahoo, Points Pool, Keeper (Since 1995): G(1), A(1), PPG(1), SHG(1) GWG(1), W(2), SHO(3). Protect 13 each season.

    C (4): Hayes, Bonino, White, Bozak
    LW (4): Aho, Huberdeau, K Connor, Gourde
    RW (4): Perry, Boeser, Tuch, Zucker
    F (1):Labanc
    D (4): Barrie, Theodore, Faulk, Shattenkirk
    G (1): Lehner

    Bench: (C) Kerfoot, (RW) Silfverberg, (LW) Bertuzzi (D) Q Hughes, R Murray, D'Angelo (G) Demko, Markstrom,

  14. #224
    Dakkster's Avatar
    Dakkster is offline
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    11,669
    Location
    Halmstad, Sweden
    Rep Power
    50

    Dobber Sports Juggernaut

    Default

    That song is from "Karlsson på taket" (Karlsson on the roof), written by Astrid Lindgren, the woman who wrote Pippi Longstocking and looooaaaads of other beloved children's stories. I always hated that song because the character was the most annoying, selfish, lying trickster ever.
    GO WINGS!

  15. #225
    Achilles's Avatar
    Achilles is offline
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    852
    Location
    Regina SK
    Rep Power
    18

    Dobber Sports Initiate

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ridinryan44 View Post
    To suggest it was "suspicious" is to suggest the potential of intent. I would agree that suspicious isn't the right word. Reckless? Absofreakinlutely.

    You can quite easily describe something as "reckless" without it being suspicious. Can something be suspicious and reckless? Of course, but to suggest that something can't be reckless without carrying suspicion just isn't right. Considering something as suspicious, or not, has to be quite subjective, if you ask me.
    I know I agreed that we should put the thread to rest, but I'm going to respond to this. You're missing the point of my posts above. Recklessness = intent. It's not the same as specific intent to cut, but it is still a culpable mental element connected to the action that attracts moral blameworthiness. That's simple ethics. If you act in a matter wherein it is obvious to any reasonable person that your action can cause harm, and are recklessness as to whether or not that harm ensues, then you are culpable for whatever harm results. You are not "innocent".

    To say it is "suspicious" merely suggests that there is a possibility of either specific intent or the somewhat lesser form of intent known as recklessness.

    And yes, I have that suspicion. I've watched the replay many times and it is very possible that he intended to step on Karlsson. Can I prove it? No. That's why I said he shouldn't be punished.

    Calling it a "conspiracy theory" was simply a rhetorical tool to dismiss the point without actually considering it on its merits. Perhaps it's an epistomological point, but claiming it was "obviously an accident" in this circumstances is not a statement of fact, but rather a statement of belief.

    You can believe it was accident. Hell, the majority of people can. Just don't mistake that as any more than a conclusion of belief based on the available evidence. It is not a statement of absolute truth that allows one to denigrate those who are drawing a different, but still logically permissible, conclusion based on the same evidence.
    Last edited by Achilles; February 16, 2013 at 12:10 PM. Reason: Typos
    10-team Keeper. Everyone keeps 12 + 1 G + 3 "young keepers" (players with less than 164 NHL games played), and 1G. Points for G (2), A (2), PIM (.2), Hit (.2), Blk (.2) SHP(1), W(4), SO(8) Must dress 4C, 4LW, 4RW, 6D, 2G

    C - Crosby, Backstrom, Kuznetsov, Eichel, Johansen
    LW - E. Kane, Drouin, Schenn, Miller, Foligno, Zucker
    RW - Wheeler, Stone, Lindholm, Oshie, Tolvanen
    D - Karlsson, Carlson, Dumba, Nurse, Ceci, Pionk, Larsson, Montour
    G - Murray, Quick, Koskinen, Blackwood, Georgiev

    Minors - Turcotte, Bouchard, Kaprizov

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •