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Thread: Coyle vs Krieder

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    Default Coyle vs Krieder

    Who do you see being the better option for team in my sig in the next 2-3 years.
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    Dont know if I am in the minority here, but I actually prefer Coyle. I think he was a "late bloomer" in the sense where he just seemed to click as soon as he stepped into the QMJHL. I don't know if that had anything to do with his linemates and a strong SeaDogs team, but he scored 34 points in 17 games on an unfamiliar team.

    I'd take the chance on Coyle, not stuck behind so many Rangers
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    I would love to hear other peoples feedback to see if I am right or not though!
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    I tend to agree on Coyle...he got called up and is apparently supposed to play on the top line tomorrow, which means they think highly of him. The Wild have a lot of young guys, and will have spots in their lineup to fill.

    With the addition of Nash, there really isn't a spot in the top 6 for Kreider...couple that with the fact he's in and out of Tortarella's doghouse regularly, I'd go with Coyle. I really only see Kreider breaking out if he is traded. He's stuck behind too many good players in NY.

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    I think both will have a similar impact over the next 2-3 years, and how much impact will depend in part on their performance, and in part on events around them (injuries, primarily).

    In terms of high end scoring talent, I think Coyle has a higher ceiling, Kreider will probably be more of a low 70s guy.

    Kreider seems like a safer bet for short term production, but really both can be sent down at any moment. Coyle has had more recent success, at least in terms of not "regressing" -Kreider was great in the playoffs last year, but has done very little in the AHL during the lockout, and many feel he's regressed.

    My feeling, assuming they both stay up (big assumption) is both will score in the high 40s pace this year (i.e., better than a half pt per game) and then have a chance to start hitting the high 50s starting next year. But after that you'll start seeing separation with Coyle starting to reach higher levels that Kreider would have a hard time getting to.

    If I had to draft right now in a keeper league, I'd take Coyle.

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    Coyle here for me.
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    Coyle for me as well. I could have grabbed either in my Sig pool and I choose Coyle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ross10019 View Post
    I think both will have a similar impact over the next 2-3 years, and how much impact will depend in part on their performance, and in part on events around them (injuries, primarily).

    In terms of high end scoring talent, I think Coyle has a higher ceiling, Kreider will probably be more of a low 70s guy.
    I've always seen it as the exact opposite actually....Kreider has a sky-high ceiling, I doubt he ever gets there but he's 6'3" 230 pounds and has speed to burn. If he can ever put his tools together he can be a superstar. He's a little lacking in hockey sense which will always hold him back, but sometimes those "all the tools no toolbox" players find a way to put it all together. I'm trying to think of a player with his skill-set and I'm blanking....Ovechkin I suppose is the best comparison, not that Kreider will ever score 65 goals but that's close to how he plays.

    On the other hand, I see Coyle as the safer pick. I almost guarantee he will score 60 points eventually, with upside to 80-ish I would think. But I just don't see his absolute ceiling anywhere near Kreider's.

    I would be keeping Kreider for now. Maybe he crashes and burns, yes he hasn't had the most amazing season so far in the AHL but he has points in both games since coming back from his injury, and has started seeing PP time.
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    I think FatTony is spot on with his post. Kreider has a higher ceiling but is more of a risk because he has lower hockey IQ. I compare him to a less skilled Matt Duchene. Coyle, on the other hand, is not quite as physically gifted but appears to find a way to succeed.
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    Very very interesting discussion here, great input. Maybe with the Coyle ceiling point i'm relying a little too much on what he has done since he came to the Q, whch suggests not a 60-70 pt player but a high scoring power forward more in the 75-90 pt vein. It But just seems from the most recent evidence that he has very high upside.

    But I wouldn't want anyone to think I was down on Kreider, despite his recent struggles, I think he's a lock to be a very productive NHLer and could turn into an 80+ pt guy. Let's put it this way, I cringed when we (Habs) picked Leblanc just before the Rangers picked Kreider in that draft, not because Leblanc isn't a solid prospect but simply because I knew that picking Kreider would have been an easy decision, were the drafting not being held in Mtl and with Leblanc having impressed so much during the prior year.

    Will be interesting to see what happens. I stand by my preference of Coyle over Kreider in a keeper league, at this time, but I certainly may be proven wrong, both are surefire NHLers and will likely be high impact players over the span of their respective careers.
    Last edited by ross10019; February 9, 2013 at 6:09 PM.

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    I think that putting Coyles ceiling even at 82 points is a little optimistic. That is very rare especially for a player of his mold.
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    Quote Originally Posted by austeane View Post
    I think that putting Coyles ceiling even at 82 points is a little optimistic. That is very rare especially for a player of his mold.
    Totally agree, I always go high on upsides which led to me putting his ceiling at 80-ish, but in all honesty I have a hard time seeing him ever reaching that number. 25-55 or 30-50, maybe one year, maaaaaybe but I wouldn't bet on it.

    Kreider on the other hand, I can say with certainty has an upside of 80+. Not that I'm saying he'll hit that number for sure, but in 5 or 6 years in a perfect situation I wouldn't be surprised by a 40-40 season from him. Coyle, it's a stretch to go that high.
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    Interesting discussion here guys and great comparison!

    I was really, really surprised to see what was starting to look like a sweep for Coyle and I'm glad a few chimed in with some Kreider love. I really like both of these players and forsee similar top end projections of a realistic 60-70 points. Not sure I see a PPG player in either of these guys...sorry but that's not such a bad thing all things being considered....very few prospects are. I tend to feel that Coyle's run with St John last season inflated his value beyond what it ever should have been and the same can be said for Kreider's fantastic playoff run last year. That St John team last year was simply absurd and it's almost impossible to take much away from those numbers (We're seeing the same thing again this year in Halifax). Coyle's AHL numbers suggest that he's transitioned fairly well but that -9 shows that there is still some work to be done. Kreiders numbers in the AHL have been nothing short of atrocious BUT it should be noted that he's been working very hard on his two-way game. New York are counting on this kid and want to make sure he enters the league with his best chance for success.

    Someone mentioned that Kreider has found his way into Torts doghouse but from what I've read and heard this isn't necessarily the case. Torts is actally very high on the kid, as is the entire Rangers organisation. What he's questioned is if he'd be best served to keep working on his game in the AHL and I feel that's probably where both of these players belong for the rest of this year.

    Both of these guys are very safe bets to pan out at the NHL level and they can both fill the stats columns so the only real question then becomes; who has the higher ceiling? I feel Kreider has the skills necessary to crack the 70 point mark and for that reason I'd roll with him. Pencil me in for 60ish for Coyle but very consistent production. Kreider may take a bit of tweaking to get it all together but if he does I feel comfortable penciling him in for 70ish

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