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Thread: J. Staal or Yakupov

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    Default J. Staal or Yakupov

    Which do you prefer for the next 3 years - J. Staal or Yakupov?

    Scoring cats are G, A, +/-, PIM, Hits

    Currently have the offer for my Yakupov, though his cieling is higher, not sure he will out produce over the next 3 years which would most likely be my keeper window for these two.
    [size=1]13 Team Keeper - Hold 10 (1 G max) - Hold salary dictates draft pick forfeited
    Scoring Cats (Equally Weighted): G,A,+/-,PIM,Hits,Blks,W,GAA,SV%
    Start 9F,5D,2G
    F: M.Tkachuk,B.Tkachuk,Svechnikov,Meier,J.Hughes,McTa vish,Jarvis,Johnston, Keller,Tuch,Crouse,Knies
    D: Heiskanen,LeTang,Sergachev,Power,Trouba,Provorov,M intyukov
    G: Helleybuck,Vasilevskiy,Jarry,Kochetkov

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    I can't see why you don't take Yakupov here. He won't be too far behind Staal even this year, and both his upside and trade value are way higher.
    10-team Keeper. Everyone keeps 12 + 1 G + 3 "young keepers" (players with less than 164 NHL games played), and 1G. Points for G (2), A (2), PIM (.2), Hit (.2), Blk (.2) SHP(1), W(4), SO(8) Must dress 4C, 4LW, 4RW, 6D, 2G

    C - Crosby, Backstrom, Kuznetsov, Eichel, Johansen
    LW - E. Kane, Drouin, Schenn, Miller, Foligno, Zucker
    RW - Wheeler, Stone, Lindholm, Oshie, Tolvanen
    D - Karlsson, Carlson, Dumba, Nurse, Ceci, Pionk, Larsson, Montour
    G - Murray, Quick, Koskinen, Blackwood, Georgiev

    Minors - Turcotte, Bouchard, Kaprizov

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    I don't get the love affair with J.Staal. He was a 3rd liner in pit...and he's a 2nd liner in Car.
    Guys...when will people finally admit...Eric...to date...is the only staal worth owning in fantasy?

    Incase you couldn't tell...not a fan. Let me requalify...I speak in fantasy terms only.

    Yakupov.... AND its not even close...this year...next... AND take this as long as you want.

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    For this year J. Staal, but in a keeper I would side with Yakupov, as he has a much great potential for points, and I would expect him to start scoring at a better clip than Staal as soon as next season. Even though all that has been said, J. Staal is very much a relevant player in fantasy and worth owning; Staal just isn't better than Yakupov in a keeper.

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    Quote Originally Posted by havanablast21 View Post
    I don't get the love affair with J.Staal. He was a 3rd liner in pit...and he's a 2nd liner in Car.
    Guys...when will people finally admit...Eric...to date...is the only staal worth owning in fantasy?

    Incase you couldn't tell...not a fan. Let me requalify...I speak in fantasy terms only.

    Yakupov.... AND its not even close...this year...next... AND take this as long as you want.
    8 points in 8 games so far with the Carolina and you're telling me he's not worth owning in fantasy?

    Does the 2nd liner argument you made for Staal clearly in order to diminish his value and potential apply to Yakupov too? Just curious...

    Don't get me wrong, I'd take Yakupov over Staal too but Staal certainly is fantasy worthy in all leagues now that he finally has the chance to live up to his offensive potential in Carolina as he's no longer behind the two best centers in the world. So far he's off to a good start with the Hurricanes and will be a great player for them for years to come - as well as for all fantasy teams that have him.
    Last edited by Carcillo; February 7, 2013 at 3:42 AM.
    UHL Pittsburgh Penguins

    24 Team Fantrax Salary Cap H2H Dynasty League
    G, A, +/-, PIM, PPP, SHP, GWG, SOG
    , Hits, Blks, FOW
    W, GAA, SV, SV%, SO
    23 Man Roster - 3C, 3LW, 3RW, 3F, 6D, 1G, 4BN, 4IR
    27 Man Minor Team

    C-
    Tavares, Stepan, Granlund, Bjugstad, Couturier
    LW- Ryan, Perron, Ennis, Killorn, Spaling
    RW-
    Wheeler, Simmonds, Coyle, Wingels, Shaw
    D-
    JJ, Schultz, Cowen, Muzzin, Bortuzzo, Stanton
    G- Lehtonen, Rämö

    F: Lehterä, Wennberg,
    McNeill, de la Rose, Fast, Leivo, Arnold, Archibald, Lindström
    D: Gelinas, Beaulieu, Koekkoek, McCabe, Johns, Gryba
    G: Berra, Talbot, Brossoit, Ullmark, Lieuwen, Rynnäs

    *UHL Champion 2014*

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carcillo View Post
    8 points in 8 games so far with the Carolina and you're telling me he's not worth owning in fantasy?

    Does the 2nd liner argument you made for Staal clearly in order to diminish his value and potential apply to Yakupov too? Just curious...

    Don't get me wrong, I'd take Yakupov over Staal too but Staal certainly is fantasy worthy in all leagues now that he finally has the chance to live up to his offensive potential in Carolina as he's no longer behind the two best centers in the world. So far he's off to a good start with the Hurricanes and will be a great player for them for years to come - as well as for all fantasy teams that have him.
    Bang on, I agree with everything Carcillo said here.
    "Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."

    "Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle."

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    id take yakupov.
    10 team Full Keeper Roto League
    4C-4LW-4RW-6D-2G-5bench-unlimited farm.

    C= eichel,horvat,malkin,kuznetsov
    LW= forsberg,kreider,lee,b.tkchuch,hertle,granlund
    RW= reinhart,radulov,hoffman,laine,hayes
    D= doughty,ghostebehere,karlsson,jones,klefbom,dahlin ,skjei
    G= price,murray,grubauer,georgiev,ullmark,samsonov

    under250gp=nichushkin,tuch,mathesson,marino,pujuja rvi,hosang,terry,andersson,j.hughes,patrik,crouse, zadina,podkolzin,k.miller,nedeljkovic,kravtsov,hay ton

    --G,A,P,PPP,SHP,GWG,PIMS,+/-,SOG,hits,FOW,blks-Wins,GAA,SV%,saves,SO

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    It is a given that Yak has higher point upside. I only raised the question because the peripherals of +/-, PIM and Hits count equally to G and A. I guess the peripherals will be close enough? Thanks.
    [size=1]13 Team Keeper - Hold 10 (1 G max) - Hold salary dictates draft pick forfeited
    Scoring Cats (Equally Weighted): G,A,+/-,PIM,Hits,Blks,W,GAA,SV%
    Start 9F,5D,2G
    F: M.Tkachuk,B.Tkachuk,Svechnikov,Meier,J.Hughes,McTa vish,Jarvis,Johnston, Keller,Tuch,Crouse,Knies
    D: Heiskanen,LeTang,Sergachev,Power,Trouba,Provorov,M intyukov
    G: Helleybuck,Vasilevskiy,Jarry,Kochetkov

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steeler View Post
    It is a given that Yak has higher point upside. I only raised the question because the peripherals of +/-, PIM and Hits count equally to G and A. I guess the peripherals will be close enough? Thanks.
    Staal doesn't get you much PIM. Not sure how Yaks will do in PIM but they're probably close in that category. +/- could go either way. Staal is as reliable two-way guy as you can find but that doesn't necessarily show in +/-. Edmonton could be an offensive powerhouse for years to come so eventually that should show in high + /- for their young stars. Yaks should get solid hits totals too but Staal's probably slightly better there. But those three categories should be close between these two.
    UHL Pittsburgh Penguins

    24 Team Fantrax Salary Cap H2H Dynasty League
    G, A, +/-, PIM, PPP, SHP, GWG, SOG
    , Hits, Blks, FOW
    W, GAA, SV, SV%, SO
    23 Man Roster - 3C, 3LW, 3RW, 3F, 6D, 1G, 4BN, 4IR
    27 Man Minor Team

    C-
    Tavares, Stepan, Granlund, Bjugstad, Couturier
    LW- Ryan, Perron, Ennis, Killorn, Spaling
    RW-
    Wheeler, Simmonds, Coyle, Wingels, Shaw
    D-
    JJ, Schultz, Cowen, Muzzin, Bortuzzo, Stanton
    G- Lehtonen, Rämö

    F: Lehterä, Wennberg,
    McNeill, de la Rose, Fast, Leivo, Arnold, Archibald, Lindström
    D: Gelinas, Beaulieu, Koekkoek, McCabe, Johns, Gryba
    G: Berra, Talbot, Brossoit, Ullmark, Lieuwen, Rynnäs

    *UHL Champion 2014*

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carcillo View Post
    8 points in 8 games so far with the Carolina and you're telling me he's not worth owning in fantasy?

    Does the 2nd liner argument you made for Staal clearly in order to diminish his value and potential apply to Yakupov too? Just curious...

    Don't get me wrong, I'd take Yakupov over Staal too but Staal certainly is fantasy worthy in all leagues now that he finally has the chance to live up to his offensive potential in Carolina as he's no longer behind the two best centers in the world. So far he's off to a good start with the Hurricanes and will be a great player for them for years to come - as well as for all fantasy teams that have him.
    Hey Carcillo. Here's my rationalle (Again...only my opinion and based on my experience in a 10 team keeper (14 player keeper) with my cats.

    There are several factors you need to look at here.
    a) Positional (Staal is C and Yakupov is RW). Centre is the deepest of all the positions and therefore, when comparing 2 players, will have an impact on their ranking. I will place a higher value on the #1 overall RW

    b) Let's look at Staal's stats over the past 3 years (including this hot start)
    10/11 - 42gp / 30pts / 7 ppp
    that's an average of 57pts 13of which are PPP over a full 82 game season
    Good enough for a 369 overall yahoo rank which is 93rd among Centers.
    Clearly not keeper worthy...and this is on the Stacked Pit Team (3rd line)

    11/12 - 62gp/ 50pts / 7 ppp
    That's an average of 66pts 9 of which are PPP over a full 82 game season
    Good enough for a 106 overall yahoo rank which is 47th amoung Centers.
    Clearly not keeper worthy...again...on a stacked Pit Team (3rd line)

    12/13 - 8gp/ 8pts / 3 ppp
    While this is a PPG game early on, the past 2 years don't suggest he will maintain this (and this is on a far less offesively gifted team).
    Even with this his perceived hot ppg start, he's still only ranked 109th overall which is 37th among Centers.

    In my league, we keep 2 Centers. With 10 teams...presumably the 20 best centers would be kept (perhaps a few more if an additional center is kept in a utility spot).

    Regardless...in the past 3 years which includes this year, Stall doesn't crack the top 20 Centers, he seems to be getting better, but he failed to crack top 80 Centers 3 years ago (granted fewer games) and failed to crack top 40 Centers last year (granted fewer games) and even now, he's failing to crack the top 30 Centers.

    Hence...my statement that this guy...while a great player...TWO WAY player as you say (later on) is far more valuable in real life than as a keeper in fantasy.

    Yakupov will undoubtedly be and currently is a keeper in fantasy and that's at a far shallower position... While the 2 play on the 2nd line now, Yakupov's value I believe far outweighs Staal's. Most of the romance surrounding Staal I believe stems from Eric's success (relative theory) as well as from having been a Verry Good player on a GREAT team. He's NOT Eric, will never put the real or fantasy points up that Eric will...But Yak totally could (out point each of them in the near future). I just wonder how many more years have to pass before people realize that there are probably 10 to 20 better Center options available to keep each and every year.

    So while I totally agree that he's worth having on your team and will bring some value...it's not keeper value based on my league/cats and no where near Yak's.

    The End...
    Last edited by havanablast21; February 7, 2013 at 10:09 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by havanablast21 View Post
    So while I totally agree that he's worth having on your team and will bring some value...it's not keeper value based on my league/cats and no where near Yak's.
    I appreciate the reply but there's few issues with it:

    - You first said that Staal isn't worth owning in fantasy which I disagreed. To me that's different from being worthy of a keeper spot in limited keepers. Staal is very much worthy of owning even in your league when you have guys like Carter, McDonald, Voracek, Whitney etc. on your team.

    - Even if Staal isn't worth of a keeper spot in your league, which is probably right since I certainly wouldn't put him as top-20 keeper C in that setup, atleast not yet, you really should base the advise for league in question. The OP's league has 13 teams, with 7 keepers per team so 91 players kept. Since teams can keep only one goalie that makes 78 skater keepers. The league uses only F spots so Yakupov's value as RW vs Staal being C is irrelevant. The league uses hits as a category which boosts Staal's value a lot. Staal is currently 48th ranked skater by Dobber and that's only for points only leagues (I think he's ranked a bit too high). But when you add hits Staal is very much keeper worthy in OP's league. Maybe not for his team since that's a great team but for some team Staal should be a keeper.
    UHL Pittsburgh Penguins

    24 Team Fantrax Salary Cap H2H Dynasty League
    G, A, +/-, PIM, PPP, SHP, GWG, SOG
    , Hits, Blks, FOW
    W, GAA, SV, SV%, SO
    23 Man Roster - 3C, 3LW, 3RW, 3F, 6D, 1G, 4BN, 4IR
    27 Man Minor Team

    C-
    Tavares, Stepan, Granlund, Bjugstad, Couturier
    LW- Ryan, Perron, Ennis, Killorn, Spaling
    RW-
    Wheeler, Simmonds, Coyle, Wingels, Shaw
    D-
    JJ, Schultz, Cowen, Muzzin, Bortuzzo, Stanton
    G- Lehtonen, Rämö

    F: Lehterä, Wennberg,
    McNeill, de la Rose, Fast, Leivo, Arnold, Archibald, Lindström
    D: Gelinas, Beaulieu, Koekkoek, McCabe, Johns, Gryba
    G: Berra, Talbot, Brossoit, Ullmark, Lieuwen, Rynnäs

    *UHL Champion 2014*

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steeler View Post
    It is a given that Yak has higher point upside. I only raised the question because the peripherals of +/-, PIM and Hits count equally to G and A. I guess the peripherals will be close enough? Thanks.
    Staal will be higher in the peripherals, but not by nearly enough to make up for Yakupov's edge in upside and trade value. Besides, there's a decent chance that by his third year on your team you decide to make him a core keeper. He has the potential to become that. I don't think Staal does. Given that, it's worth it to sacrifice a little bit this year on the peripherals and points. Yak will make it up very soon. ANd if he doesn't, you're likely to get a better return in trade than you would with Staal.
    10-team Keeper. Everyone keeps 12 + 1 G + 3 "young keepers" (players with less than 164 NHL games played), and 1G. Points for G (2), A (2), PIM (.2), Hit (.2), Blk (.2) SHP(1), W(4), SO(8) Must dress 4C, 4LW, 4RW, 6D, 2G

    C - Crosby, Backstrom, Kuznetsov, Eichel, Johansen
    LW - E. Kane, Drouin, Schenn, Miller, Foligno, Zucker
    RW - Wheeler, Stone, Lindholm, Oshie, Tolvanen
    D - Karlsson, Carlson, Dumba, Nurse, Ceci, Pionk, Larsson, Montour
    G - Murray, Quick, Koskinen, Blackwood, Georgiev

    Minors - Turcotte, Bouchard, Kaprizov

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