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Thread: Parise

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Essej View Post
    The only thing I'm arguing with you is about the term bounce back. Parise had his bounce back last season with 69 points after a season where he played in only 13 games. Parise is looking to build on last years point totals, where as Getzlaf and Duchene fell way below expectations and will be looking to bounce back. Hence why it was mentioned earlier in the thread that Parise is a little bit safer because unlike Getzlaf and Duchene, he doesn't have to bounce back in the same way the two of them need to.

    In this thread, I'm one of the guys who is in high regard of Getzlaf, and I only slightly favour Parise because of the position he plays, LW vs. C. I'm of the thinking that there is no wrong decision in thinking who's better, because the case could be made for either one of them, and this is something that only the season will be able to tell, as to who the better option is.
    im not trying to be an ******* (it just comes natural)

    i agree with the idea of arguing about the term bounce back

    parise put up 94 points in 08-09 and 82 points in 09-10 i just dont see 69 points as coming close to bouncing back

    he has been on a declince since his peak of 94 points even if you throw out the injury season

    getz has a couple of injury seasons prior to this past abomination but in those 2 seasons as well as the 2 prior he was over a point per game

    to me the guy who is 1 season removed from 4 seasons in a row of ppg and 1 season removed from his best ppg total doesnt have as far to bounce back as a guy who is 2 seasons removed from 2 ppg seasons and 3 seasons removed from his best season regardless of which had the worse season this past season

    getz had a tough season to go along with the rest of his team while parise had a bad season while one of his teammates finished in the top 5 in scoring and another in the top 10

    the best player on getzlafs team didnt crack the top 30

    parises season in the context of his team as well as his career compared to that of getzlaf is much more troubling as far as i am concerned
    Last edited by lucifer316; January 8, 2013 at 11:01 PM.
     
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    Parise's 69 point season looks pretty good coming back from major surgery. I would expect 40 in 48 in Minny. Perhaps more if the PP clicks.
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    first of all its a fair trade whatever you decide so don't worry about getting taken or anything like that, but for me I think I'd stand pat with Parise. I really like how he came back from his injury last season and played every single game. I think now that he's had the time to get fully healthy and rebuild his confidence in his body he is poised to return to full form and I think he's walking into a brilliant opportunity in MIN. I really like the team that Minny is builidng, they're doing it the right way and putting the correct pieces in place at the correct time...I think he'll be about ppg this season with lotsa upside on that as the youngsters like Granlund and Coyle develop.

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    This one's a lot closer than the votes suggest, but I'd give Parise the edge over Getz by a hair. I think Parise is a safer bet, but I actually think Getz has the higher ceiling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blayze View Post
    This one's a lot closer than the votes suggest, but I'd give Parise the edge over Getz by a hair. I think Parise is a safer bet, but I actually think Getz has the higher ceiling.
    this is the part i dont understand

    how is the guy with 2 ppg seasons out of 7 safer than the guy with 4 ppg seasons out of 7
     
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    "Bounce backs" now withstanding, Parise scored 69 points while playing second fiddle on the LW to Kovalchuk. With his new contract Parise should be the one put in every position to succeed so I would consider anything less than a point per game out of him to be disappointing over the next few seasons.

    If you can shift Benn to the LW, which you likely can, then I might consider the trade offer, but if he can't be then no way. For what they can produce as top line players at their best they could flip flop, but if I were to take a chance on anyone here it would be Parise, especially with goals being worth more than assists.
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    second fiddle to kovalchuck

    http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...ewName=summary

    just as many shifts per game as kovalchuck

    http://www.leftwinglock.com/line-com...gametype=ALL#A

    played on the same line as kovalchuk the majority of the time at even strength

    http://www.leftwinglock.com/line-com...gametype=ALL#A

    played the majority of the time with kovalchuk on the pp

    im not sure where the second fiddle comes from

    yeah kovy got more ice time but parise was still getting over 21 1/2 min per game thats 7th in the nhl among forwards

    dude wasnt some red headed step child
     
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucifer316 View Post
    second fiddle to kovalchuck

    http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...ewName=summary

    just as many shifts per game as kovalchuck

    http://www.leftwinglock.com/line-com...gametype=ALL#A

    played on the same line as kovalchuk the majority of the time at even strength

    http://www.leftwinglock.com/line-com...gametype=ALL#A

    played the majority of the time with kovalchuk on the pp

    im not sure where the second fiddle comes from

    yeah kovy got more ice time but parise was still getting over 21 1/2 min per game thats 7th in the nhl among forwards

    dude wasnt some red headed step child
    Lucifer dude,... chill, it almost seems you have a chip on your shoulder about this "Parise vs Getzlaf never mind Duchene" thread.

    We have an opinion based question here and you have well beyond adequately stated the case for your preference. Parise WAS a secondary winger to Kovalchuk. On Minny there is no other winger comparable to him unless Heatley explodes again, that puts him in the uncontested spot as a top winger like he was in his best seasons.

    All the links on the Internet won't make Getzlaf better than Parise to me or visa versa, so unless you have the Sports Almanac from Back To The Future 2 I'll stand by my opinion.

    PS. Old Smokie is no dummy. I'll bet he's just looking for opinions, not a thesis.
    Last edited by hockeymanG23; January 9, 2013 at 3:37 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucifer316 View Post
    this is the part i dont understand

    how is the guy with 2 ppg seasons out of 7 safer than the guy with 4 ppg seasons out of 7
    point totals last 4 seasons

    Parise 94, 82, (6), 69
    Getzlaf 91,69, 76, 57.

    Ppg average doesn't matter if Getzlaf is injured regularly. Last year he played a full season and did poorly.

    Goal Scorers are generally harder to find (30+ goals 5/7 seasons except rookie year and injured year) and Parise will be counted on to score/shoot more in Minny. I bet Parise will get more PPP (only 14 last year with Kovo shooting like mad). Getzlaf will get a big contract this year, and his top seasons he had 36-37 ppp, and with Visnovsky gone and Selanne retiring will probably decrease.
    Last edited by cdubb; January 9, 2013 at 9:38 AM. Reason: Correct pts for injured season
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucifer316 View Post
    second fiddle to kovalchuck

    http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...ewName=summary

    just as many shifts per game as kovalchuck

    http://www.leftwinglock.com/line-com...gametype=ALL#A

    played on the same line as kovalchuk the majority of the time at even strength

    http://www.leftwinglock.com/line-com...gametype=ALL#A

    played the majority of the time with kovalchuk on the pp

    im not sure where the second fiddle comes from

    yeah kovy got more ice time but parise was still getting over 21 1/2 min per game thats 7th in the nhl among forwards

    dude wasnt some red headed step child
    I agree with you, the '2nd fiddle' argument is bullshit...in fact I'm pretty sure most of time they played together it was Kovie who got shifted to RW despite having played on the left side his whole career so if anything its the other way around.

    I think the better argument is to recognize that Parise was coming off a major injury so he started off slowly (only 13 pts in first 23 games) but after that went on a ppg pace to finish the season. That to me is not only encouraging, it makes complete sense. You're going to be tentative coming back from an injury like that, you will have lost some of your step and you don't want to rush in and reinjure anything. I think he's fully back now and we'll see a return to ppg or ppg+ in Minny. Anaheim is a mess, I think they'll continue to struggle

    Finally, you gotta consider that wingers are harder to come by then centers...so an 80 pt winger is easily worth a 90 pt C in most formats that use positions

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    Quote Originally Posted by hockeymanG23 View Post
    Lucifer dude,... chill, it almost seems you have a chip on your shoulder about this "Parise vs Getzlaf never mind Duchene" thread.

    We have an opinion based question here and you have well beyond adequately stated the case for your preference. Parise WAS a secondary winger to Kovalchuk. On Minny there is no other winger comparable to him unless Heatley explodes again, that puts him in the uncontested spot as a top winger like he was in his best seasons.

    All the links on the Internet won't make Getzlaf better than Parise to me or visa versa, so unless you have the Sports Almanac from Back To The Future 2 I'll stand by my opinion.

    PS. Old Smokie is no dummy. I'll bet he's just looking for opinions, not a thesis.
    what chill im posting just like everyone else

    as for opinions people are posting things as fact like second fiddle however the facts bear out something completely different

    i dont see how posting facts to knock down faulty myths is somehow now a bad thing

    as for nothing making getz better than parise you know what whatever dont let the facts or the stats get in the way of anything

    its a fact that getz has the better ppg over his career its a fact that getz had 4 seasons of ppg play where parise has only 2

    i dont understand how a guy who has 2 great seasons is somehow a god yet a guys who has 4 of them is a loser when they are the same age

    and you can keep claiming he was secondary all you want thats just not the truth he got plenty of ice time and everything else

    before they decided to just collect paychecks semin managed 84 points in 73 games playing second fiddle so sorry the second fiddle theory doesnt cut it with me

    not to mention in 09-10 parise managed 82 points all while playing second fiddle to kovalchuk

    as for your complaint of me writing a thesis

    all i did was give an opinion the thesises came about when people started spouting cockamamee theories
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdubb View Post
    point totals last 4 seasons

    Parise 94, 82, (13), 69
    Getzlaf 91,69, 76, 57.

    Ppg average doesn't matter if Getzlaf is injured regularly. Last year he played a full season and did poorly.

    Goal Scorers are generally harder to find (30+ goals 5/7 seasons except rookie year and injured year) and Parise will be counted on to score/shoot more in Minny. I bet Parise will get more PPP (only 14 last year with Kovo shooting like mad). Getzlaf will get a big contract this year, and his top seasons he had 36-37 ppp, and with Visnovsky gone and Selanne retiring will probably decrease.
    unless i miss something thats 258 points for parise in the last 4 seasons and 293 for getzlaf in my math 293>258

    2 seasons of missing aproximately 15 games each out of 7 seasons is hardly being injured regularly

    parise played poorly last season as well while 2 of his teammates were in the top 10 in the league in scoring

    getzlaf played poorly while his entire team shit the bed

    neither did well but i dont see how underperforming your team gets you a pass while performing as well as your team makes you a goat
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucifer316 View Post
    unless i miss something thats 258 points for parise in the last 4 seasons and 293 for getzlaf in my math 293>258

    2 seasons of missing aproximately 15 games each out of 7 seasons is hardly being injured regularly

    parise played poorly last season as well while 2 of his teammates were in the top 10 in the league in scoring

    getzlaf played poorly while his entire team shit the bed

    neither did well but i dont see how underperforming your team gets you a pass while performing as well as your team makes you a goat
    251* pts in 258 games equals almost 1 ppg for Parise. Other than 1 season, he's played at least 81 games.

    293 pts in 298 games for Getzlafslightly less than 1 PPG also. 57 games, 66 games, 67 games equals 3 seasons where he missed considerable time.

    * only 6 pts in 13 games 2 years ago. (using iPad and flipping between pages difficult)

    While we are both comparing the size of our calculators, I will mention I drafted both Parise and Getzlaf last year. Traded Getzlaf for Spezza, won the league, and kept Parise over Spezza. League stats a little different, but Getzlaf did very very poorly last year. Parise helped me win. And managed to redraft Getzlaf this year because yes he has upside.

    57 and 69 pts, big difference of 12 pts. 12 pts more and Parise would have had 81 pts and be tied for 7th overall in scoring.
    Last edited by cdubb; January 9, 2013 at 9:49 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mister_mcgoo View Post
    I think the better argument is to recognize that Parise was coming off a major injury so he started off slowly (only 13 pts in first 23 games) but after that went on a ppg pace to finish the season. That to me is not only encouraging, it makes complete sense. You're going to be tentative coming back from an injury like that, you will have lost some of your step and you don't want to rush in and reinjure anything. I think he's fully back now and we'll see a return to ppg or ppg+ in Minny. Anaheim is a mess, I think they'll continue to struggle
    lots of players come off of major injuries and tear it up

    i am not discounting the injury entirely however some great players find a way to be great even when recovering from injury its part of being a great player

    too many put parise in a category beyond where he should be as a result

    im not saying he cant get back to ppg however if i am given 2 27 year olds one with 4 ppg seasons and another with 2 of them i am putting my money on the one with 4 of them being able to do it again before the one with 2 of them especially given that quite a few players struggle to find their legs immediately on new teams

    guys like richards and kovalchuk struggled to get up to speed

    hossa while not bad hasnt really approached that 4 year stretch from 02-03 to 06-07

    heatley etc etc

    Finally, you gotta consider that wingers are harder to come by then centers...so an 80 pt winger is easily worth a 90 pt C in most formats that use positions
    while this is true in a straight points league all that is being argued here is points while most are completely ignoring the scoring system involved and ignoring the fact that this is a capped league

    while an 80 point winger might be worth more than a 90 point center is that true when that winger carries a cap hit of $7.5m and the center carries a cap hit of $5.3m or even worse if salaries are used instead of cap hit $12m compared to $6.1

    also like i said the scoring system is being completely ignored hits pims blocked shots fow these are things that allowed getz to outpoint parise under this setup even though parise 'outscored' getz last season

    so when both players are back to where they should be in terms of scoring getz will create a gap because of the scoring system in play

    also getz while likely to get a raise after this season will not see parise money the new cba and the lowering of the cap and the buyouts etc will see to that so in terms of efficient use of cap space getz will provide a better option

    look getz had a tough season last year there is no question but under that point system he was still the 32nd best skater
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdubb View Post
    251 pts in 258 games equals almost 1 ppg for Parise. Other than 1 season, he's played at least 81 games.

    293 pts in 298 games for Getzlaf less than 1 PPG also. Excuse any math problems, tried to do it in my head. 57 games, 66 games, 67 games equals 3 seasons where he missed considerable time.
    come on i expect much much better than this he missed time 2 seasons

    that 57 game season was his rookie season the one where he played 17 games in portland

    removing rookie years parise has played 421 games and getzlaf 455

    even if you want to include rookie years its parise 502 to getzlaf 512

    the myth that somehow getzlaf has missed so much more time than parise to injury is just that

    While we are both comparing the size of our calculators, I will mention I drafted both Parise and Getzlaf last year. Traded Getzlaf for Spezza, won the league, and kept Parise over Spezza. And redrafted Getzlaf this year.
    i am sorry but this has exaclty what to do with a cap league with the scoring system in the ops signature

    i appreciate your anecdotal evidence however in this situation its pretty irrelevant in the context of what is going on here

    not to mention i am not sure the point you are trying to make if it is that getzlaf was able to be drafted the orginal post states that getzlaf will be a keeper for this other manager so he will not be available in the draft like in your situation
     
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