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Thread: Weber or Doughty

  1. #16
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    From reading everyones posts I guess I will be in the minority but with all those peripherals, I am taking Weber.

    You guys can all play your "gut" but I am going with the numbers. You would have to go back 3 years to find a season where Doughty out-performs Weber with those peripherals, and that was only because of Doughtys amazing offensive season.

    I am going with the guy who "should" have won the Norris trophy last year. Give me Shea Weber.
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    Quote Originally Posted by horrorfan View Post
    So, this is a H2H points league? You should make that clear in your signature. And especially since you have peripherals, it would be useful to know how the scoring values affect those players, in terms of total fantasy points (per season and/or per game).
    Should I write "points" after H2H?
    10 Team H2H Points (Keep 1C, 2W, 2D, 1G, & 1 non-goalie):
    G,A,+/-, PIM, PPG, SHG, GWG, OTG, FOWs, Hits, Blks, Maj, Mis, (bonus scoring for D-men makes them comparable to Wing)
    Wins, Saves, GA, Shutouts

    Daily Start: 2C, 4W, 4D, 2G

    C: Toews
    W: Perry, Kucherov
    D: Karlsson, Carlson, Klingberg,
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    You should write "points" after H2H, and you should tell everyone what all the point allocations are. Horrorfan pointed at this, but otherwise, you're just getting completely blind (and possibly completely bad) advice, as well-intentioned as it might be.

    So: what is the scoring system?

    G
    A
    +/-
    PIM
    PPG
    SHG
    GWG
    OTG
    FOWs
    Hits
    Blks
    Maj
    Mis


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    potential vs current NHL stud? Weber hands down until Doughty proves he can live up to potential. I question Doughtys work ethic, contract and hes in a city that promotes partying

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    Thanks guys... as far as providing points for each cat... isn't that a bit much to have in the Sig? Anyway, here is our point system:

    G = 3 for Center, 3.5 for Wing, 4 for Dman
    A = 2.25 for Center, 2 for Wing, 4 for Dman
    +/- = +/- 1
    PIM = 0.5/min
    PPG = 1
    SHG = 1
    GWG = 1
    OTG = 2
    FOWs = 0.25
    Hits = 0.25
    Blks = 0.25
    Maj = 2
    Mis = 1

    But wait, there's actually more... that I don't mention in my sig:
    Hatrick = 3
    SHGFWOI (shorthanded goal for while on ice) = 0.5
    PSG (penalty shot goal) = 2
    SHOA (shootout attempt) = 0.25
    SHOG (shootout goal) = 1
    CPNWOTV (Caught picking nose while on TV) = 1

    Goalie cats moot for this conversation, but even they get 1 for Assist and 5 for a Goal... which was a nice little boost last year for Ward - thanks to Kovalchuk!

    Nutty scoring system... yes. Do I love it... YES! Except when I lose in the playoffs by 0.25 points.
    10 Team H2H Points (Keep 1C, 2W, 2D, 1G, & 1 non-goalie):
    G,A,+/-, PIM, PPG, SHG, GWG, OTG, FOWs, Hits, Blks, Maj, Mis, (bonus scoring for D-men makes them comparable to Wing)
    Wins, Saves, GA, Shutouts

    Daily Start: 2C, 4W, 4D, 2G

    C: Toews
    W: Perry, Kucherov
    D: Karlsson, Carlson, Klingberg,
    G: Allen

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    Quote Originally Posted by jhonny View Post
    Thanks guys... as far as providing points for each cat... isn't that a bit much to have in the Sig?
    No, it isn't a bit much - if you want the best analysis, then you need to give all the information.
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    Quote Originally Posted by teamplayer7 View Post
    potential vs current NHL stud? Weber hands down until Doughty proves he can live up to potential. I question Doughtys work ethic, contract and hes in a city that promotes partying
    They are pretty close in points right now, the only difference is I can't see Weber getting any better points wise, where as with Doughty he has the immediate potential to hit much higher point totals. The league also values d points higher than points from center and the wings.

    I think in this type of format it's worth the risk every time to go with Doughty over Weber, sure Weber will probably beat out Doughty in hits, blocks, and shots but it's worth being overlooked for a solid chance at more total fantasy points.

    Doughty leading all D in scoring in the playoffs makes me think he's ready to go back to putting up big point totals.

  8. #23
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    I would take Shea Weber in this league format.

  9. #24
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    points only: doughty

    otherwise weber.

    aki berg trumps them all though.
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    It's close... I think we will see Doughty bounce back as one of the elite in the league next season, but this format definitely favours Weber.

    All said, I would take Weber by a hair.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jhonny View Post
    Thanks guys... as far as providing points for each cat... isn't that a bit much to have in the Sig? Anyway, here is our point system:

    G = 3 for Center, 3.5 for Wing, 4 for Dman
    A = 2.25 for Center, 2 for Wing, 4 for Dman
    +/- = +/- 1
    PIM = 0.5/min
    PPG = 1
    SHG = 1
    GWG = 1
    OTG = 2
    FOWs = 0.25
    Hits = 0.25
    Blks = 0.25
    Maj = 2
    Mis = 1

    But wait, there's actually more... that I don't mention in my sig:
    Hatrick = 3
    SHGFWOI (shorthanded goal for while on ice) = 0.5
    PSG (penalty shot goal) = 2
    SHOA (shootout attempt) = 0.25
    SHOG (shootout goal) = 1
    CPNWOTV (Caught picking nose while on TV) = 1

    Goalie cats moot for this conversation, but even they get 1 for Assist and 5 for a Goal... which was a nice little boost last year for Ward - thanks to Kovalchuk!

    Nutty scoring system... yes. Do I love it... YES! Except when I lose in the playoffs by 0.25 points.
    As long as you're not abusing sig space by posting needless images (boobies are OK) and irrelevant text then it's fine. Anything that helps others figure out your league context is a good thing.

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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhonny View Post
    Thanks guys... as far as providing points for each cat... isn't that a bit much to have in the Sig? Anyway, here is our point system:

    G = 3 for Center, 3.5 for Wing, 4 for Dman
    A = 2.25 for Center, 2 for Wing, 4 for Dman
    +/- = +/- 1
    PIM = 0.5/min
    PPG = 1
    SHG = 1
    GWG = 1
    OTG = 2
    FOWs = 0.25
    Hits = 0.25
    Blks = 0.25
    Maj = 2
    Mis = 1

    But wait, there's actually more... that I don't mention in my sig:
    Hatrick = 3
    SHGFWOI (shorthanded goal for while on ice) = 0.5
    PSG (penalty shot goal) = 2
    SHOA (shootout attempt) = 0.25
    SHOG (shootout goal) = 1
    CPNWOTV (Caught picking nose while on TV) = 1

    Goalie cats moot for this conversation, but even they get 1 for Assist and 5 for a Goal... which was a nice little boost last year for Ward - thanks to Kovalchuk!

    Nutty scoring system... yes. Do I love it... YES! Except when I lose in the playoffs by 0.25 points.
    It's not a bit much. You are asking us for advice based on your league settings so we need it to give you advice. Otherwise, we'd be guessing. However, if you really don't want to add to it, then at least clear up the league type to H2H points, and provide all the scoring values at the beginning of each future thread.

    As well, it would be helpful if you could provide the fantasy points (per season/game) as well so we don't have to do the calculations for you. In future, if you have this information provided up front then it would save a lot of questions (and time, if necessary). Even better if you gave us the fpoints for both good/bad years for both players to see how it affects it.

    Looking at the settings, a lot of people are assuming Weber kills in this format but have a look at Doughty only two years ago (hits/blocks). He's not too bad, so if he gets back to that pace, how much it affects the fantasy points and depending on how much (if at all) offensive advantage, this might be closer than we think.
    Last edited by horrorfan; January 3, 2013 at 4:45 PM.
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  13. #28
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    Thanks everyone... I've actually learned a lot in this thread... I have been cheating myself for a couple of years now - at least in terms of the advice I was getting.

    As per Horrorfan's post, here are the fantasy numbers based on every category previously mentioned - except Blocked Shots... we just added them this Summer, so there's no history. I am including Byfuglien, Chara, Karlsson, and Green as well to help give some reference:

    Weber:
    2011 = 337.75
    2010 = 322.5
    2009 = 275.25

    Doughty:
    2011 = 237
    2010 = 276.5
    2009 = 360.25

    Buffy:
    2011 = 290.75
    2010 = 335.5
    2009 = 258.25

    Chara:
    2011 = 366.25
    2010 = 342.5
    2009 = 315.25

    Karlsson:
    2011 = 388.75
    2010 = 212.5
    2009 = 135

    Green:
    2011 = 62.75
    2010 = 191.75
    2009 = 449
    2008 = 425

    Green's 2008 and 2009 seasons were the only 400+ point seasons for a defensemen in our league ever.
    10 Team H2H Points (Keep 1C, 2W, 2D, 1G, & 1 non-goalie):
    G,A,+/-, PIM, PPG, SHG, GWG, OTG, FOWs, Hits, Blks, Maj, Mis, (bonus scoring for D-men makes them comparable to Wing)
    Wins, Saves, GA, Shutouts

    Daily Start: 2C, 4W, 4D, 2G

    C: Toews
    W: Perry, Kucherov
    D: Karlsson, Carlson, Klingberg,
    G: Allen

  14. #29
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    Since there are some calculations required, you could create a spreadsheet to Google Docs and post a link to the file in your sig. All of this can be stored there and others can access the info easily. I just think something like this would make your life easier.
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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by horrorfan View Post
    As well, it would be helpful if you could provide the fantasy points (per season/game)
    Quote Originally Posted by jhonny View Post
    As per Horrorfan's post, here are the fantasy numbers based on every category previously mentioned - except Blocked Shots... we just added them this Summer, so there's no history.

    Weber:
    2011 = 337.75
    2010 = 322.5
    2009 = 275.25

    Doughty:
    2011 = 237
    2010 = 276.5
    2009 = 360.25
    One thing that could make a difference when trying to compare based on your settings is looking at it on a per game basis, as this is a H2H league. I did a quick calculation for blocks and using both Weber's and Doughty's average BS totals for the past three seasons. It results in Weber having a 8 fpt advantage on a weekly basis. So, would that have much of an effect on your totals, especially if Doughty increases his offense towards his career season, or at least 50+? That's what you have to decide. I don't think it's clear cut, nor do I think the hits/blocks have as significant effect on your weekly at first glance.

    That's a mistake that some people focus too much of their attention on - they see hits and blocked shots and assume Weber is more valuable. He could be, but depending on the rest of the settings and your projections going forward, will he remain that way and if so, will it be by much?

    Also, elite offensive defensemen are harder to find than peripherals so if Doughty can get back to that level then I'd be tempted to lean towards his direction, if you agree that the loss of Suter and an average offense will hurt Weber's offensive totals.

    Finally, not sure if you mentioned it above but it comes down to how much your trading partner values both players, as you can number crunch all you want but until you know what the other side thinks, then it might not matter as much. If you can get an upgrade along with Doughty then I would seriously consider pursuing it. If it has to be straight up, well, to me it's flip a coin (I know, doesn't help) but I really think it can be close. It might come down to who you like to cheer for more!
    Last edited by horrorfan; January 4, 2013 at 8:53 AM.
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