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Thread: Fantasy Leagues - Point of no return?

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    Angry Fantasy Leagues - Point of no return?

    Wasn't really sure in what sectiion I should post this, but was curious for feedback from some other commissioners.

    Just now sent an email to my league advising them that if games should resume from this point forward all prize money would be divided in half. The remaining half would carry over to the following year and we would vote on doubling down during the off season. Also, IF season is canceled, we procede as usual - which is tricky due to this being our first year. Buut the draft will occur in reverse order of last year's, drop-down date still stands etc...

    It sucks being our initial year, but it is what it is and ya move on.

    Just wondering if any others are making similar preparations? Cutoff dates etc?

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    Hey Bomm!

    Just curious why you guys decided to forego half the prize money. I get that 48 games isn't a full 82 game season, but if it qualifies as a full season in the NHL's eyes, then why isn't that good enough for your league? They didn't hand out half a Stanley Cup at the end of the last locked out season. I don't mean to be critical, but was just curious.

    In my one money league, I've deferred the draft and if and when the buffoons decide to get back to making money (I'm talking about the NHL/NHLPA, not the guys in my league), we'll hold our draft and it will be full pay/full prizes as per a normal 82 game slate.

    We've built a lockout provision into our rules stating that the draft will be in the same order as the year before.
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    I'm not a commish, but in my big cash pool, we've already decided that if there's a season, then it's game on as usual - same prize money, same rules, same everything.

    Doesn't matter if it's 82 games or 40 games.

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    Agree with Comish and Blayze.

    A season is a season...............prize money should be the same. I'm sure it will be in my league.


    I guess, some people may want to only pay half the fees, since it's a half season, and then the prize money is adjusted accordingly. That seems like the only logical explanation.

    But to have half the money go out this year, and then 1 1/2 times the amount next season just makes it awkward in both cases IMO.


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    It was my suggestion but the guys in my league agreed, 1/2 season = 1/2 money. I wouldn't feel right taking all the coin in an abbreviated season such as this one. Had it been 60-70 games fine but less just didn't feel right to me. Increases the odds for An otherwise lame team to catch a hot streak and win outright. Not enough time for the water to seek its natural level, imo.

    I originally believed we should play for only determination of draft order but the others felt that was too boring. So half it is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bomm Bastic View Post
    It was my suggestion but the guys in my league agreed, 1/2 season = 1/2 money. I wouldn't feel right taking all the coin in an abbreviated season such as this one. Had it been 60-70 games fine but less just didn't feel right to me. Increases the odds for An otherwise lame team to catch a hot streak and win outright. Not enough time for the water to seek its natural level, imo.
    I don't think you should have that kind of mentality as a commish. By saying something like that, you are indirectly admitting that you have a view on which teams are "lame" and which teams should "rightfully" win. In other words you are already biased when as a commish you need to always be neutral.

    In a 40-50 game season, if a team wins, then it deserved to win. Period. That's like me saying the LA Kings didn't deserve to win the Stanley Cup because they weren't one of the favourites going into the season. Who are you to say it's a fluke if team X wins? People DO improve...

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    Quote Originally Posted by blayze View Post
    I don't think you should have that kind of mentality as a commish. By saying something like that, you are indirectly admitting that you have a view on which teams are "lame" and which teams should "rightfully" win. In other words you are already biased when as a commish you need to always be neutral.

    In a 40-50 game season, if a team wins, then it deserved to win. Period. That's like me saying the LA Kings didn't deserve to win the Stanley Cup because they weren't one of the favourites going into the season. Who are you to say it's a fluke if team X wins? People DO improve...
    Well, perhaps "lame" was a poor choice of word. I just meant that a championship won during a forty games season carries less weight (imo) than a championship won during an eighty game season, and, thus, should be paid accordingly.

    The road to a championship is a marathon not a sprint. Player fatigue, benching, and injuries are just as much a factor as points accrued. It is imperative that any fantasy GM maintain depth of personnel which may or may not include a keen sense of the waiver wire, trades etc...

    Therefore, a significantly shortened season - and the subsequent championship won - is less a true representation of the sound management needed to win the whole shabang.

    On a side note, we are a weekly head-to-head league. So regardless of total number of scheduled NHL games, if we can't play each other at least once (eleven weeks) there's no point.

    Speaking for myself, I don't want an asterisk next to my team name, and quite frankly, the other GMs are salivating for the the 2013-14 season when our purse will increase by more than 1k.
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    The parameters will become tighter for sure, but to me a season is a season regardless of the amount of games it takes.

    Of course your league can choose to divvy up the buy in and payout according to your desire, but I would be careful against casting any team as unworthy of the prize.

    If we think back to the '94-95 season does it have an asterix beside the NJD on the Stanley Cup?; * Well, the NHL only played half the season so the NJD only deserve half the cup.

    No, they won the Cup and that is all.

    This lockout is frustrating for sure, but in the effort to make all things equal the league I'm in will make it possible to win it all if the NHL starts the games up, and we'll cancel it all only if they do also. All or nothing, no middle ground for us.

    That said, if the other GM's are jacked up about a bigger pot next year then all the more competitive power to you and them in the coming season!
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    In my money league, league fees have yet to be paid. We are waiting to see what will happen before any money is even paid in, let alone what will be paid out should there be a season.

    If everyone in your league has already paid their money (and paid for the full year) then your payout at the end should be the full amount, regardless of how many games the NHL have played to make their season whole.

    Sounds like the easiest way to deal with it.
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    Here's what I would say about impact of a shortened season, there are two routes:

    1. Route #1: Draft has taken place.
    If your teams have drafted (or in a "keeper pool"), then there are already teams that feel they are strong for a coming year. Penalizing those teams by suggesting a 1/2 pot is unfair. Even if 10/12 teams vote for a 1/2 pot... that's not fair to the 2/12 that may have voted for a full pot (and have strong teams). Changing rules during any season (even during lockout) that impact THAT season is poor move as a commissioner. Sorry, true.

    2. Route #2: Draft has not yet taken place.
    If there has not yet been a draft, then any majority votes are fine and draft order should just be carried over to next year. But... knowing you as a passionate fan, you've had your draft... so you are not here.

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    Appreciate the healthy debate, but I'm afraid I remain unconvinced - assuming league GMs are in agreement.

    GM's buy-in for a dollar amount based on an eighty-two game season. Risk/benefit plays into it. For example, I had one GM tell me rather matter-of-factly that carrying over the whole dollar amount and doubling down for 2013-14 was too much for him and not worth it. So it cuts both ways, in my mind. If X + Y = amount that is too much for a given full eighty-two season, then it is quite possible that X alone is too much for <82 games.

    And don't tell me that winning eight games to get to a championship begets as much consideration as having to win 14+ games to achieve the same goal.

    That's why "they" say the NHL season was shortened due to the lockout. A season = 82 games. Anything less, is not a season.
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    I don't play in money leagues, so can't comment directly on that, but I am curious if you have a shortened season and don't want a full payout, why for a regular 82 game season (2013-14) you would want to have a purse 1.5x that of the normal purse? It isn't going to be a 123 game season next year, so using the same logic to decrease the purse in a shortened season, increasing it for a regular season as a result doesn't make sense. I am afraid that with less financial commitment this year, you will potentially see some teams put forth less of an effort in order to increase their potential of winning next seasons bonus pot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by letnry View Post
    I don't play in money leagues, so can't comment directly on that, but I am curious if you have a shortened season and don't want a full payout, why for a regular 82 game season (2013-14) you would want to have a purse 1.5x that of the normal purse? It isn't going to be a 123 game season next year, so using the same logic to decrease the purse in a shortened season, increasing it for a regular season as a result doesn't make sense. I am afraid that with less financial commitment this year, you will potentially see some teams put forth less of an effort in order to increase their potential of winning next seasons bonus pot.
    The carry-over was league-wide consensus. Listen, just so we are clear, I didn't dictate this protocol. I was sitting in my chair at home wondering to myself, so I decided to informally get a feel for where the other GMs stood on this - w/out telling them what I wanted. In fact, I wanted to carry over the full amount and double down, so....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bomm Bastic View Post
    Wasn't really sure in what sectiion I should post this, but was curious for feedback from some other commissioners.

    Just now sent an email to my league advising them that if games should resume from this point forward all prize money would be divided in half. The remaining half would carry over to the following year and we would vote on doubling down during the off season. Also, IF season is canceled, we procede as usual - which is tricky due to this being our first year. Buut the draft will occur in reverse order of last year's, drop-down date still stands etc...

    It sucks being our initial year, but it is what it is and ya move on.

    Just wondering if any others are making similar preparations? Cutoff dates etc?

    My league is a one-year league, $100 buy-in, with an awesome championship trophy (guys love winning it more than the cash). We have multiple guys out of town and make draft weekend a get away event with golfing and drinking. Because of this we can't get everyone together last minute when an NHL start date is set. We set our draft day for late September each year and it's booked by June usually. This year was no exception we had our fun and completed the draft and hoped the season would start soon. We decided from day 1 that any season would mean a fantasy season, full payout and trophy awarded, sure there is more luck involved but with any team has the chance to get redhot so the variance doesn't favour any one team. Also we always pay league fees upfront because or Commish has rightly pointed out getting paid after the fact is a bitch, if there is no season the money will just become next season's pot.

    I can appreciate the half season = half cash idea (you pay $x per week of entertainment) but seems like that should mean the other half is returned to managers. I don't get why playing for half this year and then 1.5x the cash next season makes sense. If ALL the managers agree to this then its fine however consider those opposed positions. As Pengwin mentioned if you had a/a few stud lineups this year they'd be rightly pissed to only be playing for half of the original amount but since it's your first year I can't see this being an overly likely scenario.

    You say this is your first year, I assume of a keeper league. If that's the case seems like the teams can carryover to next year and this year's #1 drafts #12next year. I'm not experienced in keepers, nor do we know your full rules on draft order, trading picks etc. so I can't comment much on those rules.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LawMan View Post
    My league is a one-year league, $100 buy-in, with an awesome championship trophy (guys love winning it more than the cash). We have multiple guys out of town and make draft weekend a get away event with golfing and drinking. Because of this we can't get everyone together last minute when an NHL start date is set. We set our draft day for late September each year and it's booked by June usually. This year was no exception we had our fun and completed the draft and hoped the season would start soon. We decided from day 1 that any season would mean a fantasy season, full payout and trophy awarded, sure there is more luck involved but with any team has the chance to get redhot so the variance doesn't favour any one team. Also we always pay league fees upfront because or Commish has rightly pointed out getting paid after the fact is a bitch, if there is no season the money will just become next season's pot.

    I can appreciate the half season = half cash idea (you pay $x per week of entertainment) but seems like that should mean the other half is returned to managers. I don't get why playing for half this year and then 1.5x the cash next season makes sense. If ALL the managers agree to this then its fine however consider those opposed positions. As Pengwin mentioned if you had a/a few stud lineups this year they'd be rightly pissed to only be playing for half of the original amount but since it's your first year I can't see this being an overly likely scenario.

    You say this is your first year, I assume of a keeper league. If that's the case seems like the teams can carryover to next year and this year's #1 drafts #12next year. I'm not experienced in keepers, nor do we know your full rules on draft order, trading picks etc. so I can't comment much on those rules.
    Ours is a limited keepr (8), buy-in is $175. We draft first sat following Labor Day and you have to be paid in-full in order to draft. GMs wanted to carry over the remaining cash...to play for more money next year. It's not really based on logic.
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    Start: 2C, 2RW, 2LW, 4D, 2G

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