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Thread: CT Elementary School Shooting - WTF?!?

  1. #76
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    Who are these Westboro Baptist Church people?

    Good on those grey hat hackers Anonymous. There are plenty of grey hats like these guys, their actions are just not known.


    I have never owned (edit: or held) a gun, unless I become a total recluse in the woods, I will never have to. Even then, it's not necessary.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ross The Boss Palmer View Post
    Who are these Westboro Baptist Church people?
    They are not people by any definition of the word I'm aware of, other than the most superficial outward appearances. They are however the face of intolerance, hatred, and fanaticism in the name of religion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoWayOut View Post
    They are however the face of intolerance, hatred, and fanaticism in the name of religion.
    Absolutely. There are good documentaries - that's on youtube - by Louis Theroux about the Phelps family and Westboro Baptist Church. I've watched both. Gives a little insight to how truly intolerant and ignorant they really are.
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    Dianne Hochsprung
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    I ask myself what can I do. How can I help. Can I make a difference.

    I teach kids grades K-5, see about 500 different faces a week, 1500 from September to June. I work with 60 teachers in any given year. I can't say I have any easy answers. I can't admit to having any great insight. I can say that I believe every one of those teachers I work with would lay down their lives to save your child.

    Perhaps the next time you drop your son or daughter off at an elementary school, or middle school, or high school, acknowledge that when you entrust your children to them, they will do everything in their power to protect them. Let your child's teacher know you appreciate their commitment.


    Perhaps try and remember the six names heading this post. Perhaps the next time you hear a friend or colleague speak disrespectfully about a teacher, remind them who they are really talking about.

    Perhaps that would help.
    Last edited by spitball; December 17, 2012 at 10:20 AM.
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    I have no idea how suggesting that there should be armed guards at a school is controversial... to anyone.

    The long and short of it is that this guy was flat out nuts. He tried to get a gun legally and was rebuffed. His own mother's negligence was what allowed this to yet. BUT the suggestion that he'd have not pursued any alternatives is simply naive. The kid would've stolen someone else's guns, or maybe even built an explosive device. Propane canister plus lighter equals potentially hundreds of casualties.

    You can't stop crazy and pure evil with mere laws. Force must often be met with force.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dongjohnson View Post
    I have no idea how suggesting that there should be armed guards at a school is controversial... to anyone.

    The long and short of it is that this guy was flat out nuts. He tried to get a gun legally and was rebuffed. His own mother's negligence was what allowed this to yet. BUT the suggestion that he'd have not pursued any alternatives is simply naive. The kid would've stolen someone else's guns, or maybe even built an explosive device. Propane canister plus lighter equals potentially hundreds of casualties.

    You can't stop crazy and pure evil with mere laws. Force must often be met with force.
    The history of force being met with force is as evil as what just happened. Sorry, but I disagree with almost everything you wrote here.

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    There are thousands of laws on the books against murder, assault, battery and mayhem. None of them stopped this from happening. The suggestion that one more would've made the ultimate difference is, well, tremendously naive. But to point it out, the man who shot Gabby Giffords, the Colorado theater shooter and this guy all clearly had mental problems yet we're not really doing anything to address that. Where are the PSAs? Where is the outcry as to that?

    Moreover, lost is the fact that general rate of violent crime in the U.S. has been trending downward consistently over the last 25+ years. These large-scale tragedies actually are outliers, going against a much larger trend (http://themonkeycage.org/blog/2012/0...united-states/, http://www.nij.gov/topics/crime/gun-...ce/welcome.htm). The most reasonable reaction to a single event, one that goes against a larger trend, generally is no action.
    Last edited by dongjohnson; December 16, 2012 at 8:26 PM.
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    It's not either/or. It's both.

    Helping those who need it, and making access to guns WAY less available.

    But stating that we just need more people with guns to guard Elementary schools seems like an ... odd ... way to fix things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by doulos View Post
    It's not either/or. It's both.

    Helping those who need it, and making access to guns WAY less available.

    But stating that we just need more people with guns to guard Elementary schools seems like an ... odd ... way to fix things.
    Look at it this way, you have armed guards in many banks and they only carry money. Why not have armed guards where there are 1,500 or so children (far more valuable than money, right?).
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    Quote Originally Posted by dongjohnson View Post
    Look at it this way, you have armed guards in many banks and they only carry money. Why not have armed guards where there are 1,500 or so children (far more valuable than money, right?).
    I don't think the money cares that it is living in a police state. The children just might (as well as their parents).

    I find the normalization of armed guards at Elementary schools to be utterly disturbing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by doulos View Post
    I don't think the money cares that it is living in a police state. The children just might (as well as their parents).

    I find the normalization of armed guards at Elementary schools to be utterly disturbing.
    I understand that point completely, but I think most people will likely take the trade-off.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dongjohnson View Post
    I understand that point completely, but I think most people will likely take the trade-off.
    What are the odds of a overexcited armed guard accidentally shooting a student? I think higher than actually stopping another shooter

    You Americans have it crazy. Seen pictures of US hospitals with machine gun carrying guards at the ER front door.

    Easier and more public support for owning guns, than for universal health insurance. Now that shows the state of America, and how the rest of the world views the country.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdubb View Post
    What are the odds of a overexcited armed guard accidentally shooting a student? I think higher than actually stopping another shooter

    You Americans have it crazy. Seen pictures of US hospitals with machine gun carrying guards at the ER front door.

    Easier and more public support for owning guns, than for universal health insurance. Now that shows the state of America, and how the rest of the world views the country.
    Eh, no matter what you think, that's not the worst of it. Put it this way, half the country doesn't want us teaching Evolution in schools. 60% think the Earth is 5,000 years old.

    I'm one of the few Agnostic, liberals against strict gun control. It's just proven itself true in my life.
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  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdubb View Post
    Seen pictures of US hospitals with machine gun carrying guards at the ER front door.
    Most likely what you saw was from an inner-city hospital. In most major US cities there's at least one hospital that's located in gang territory. It's not at all out of the realm of possibility that if there is a gang related shooting, the shooter, or shooters, could show up at the ER to finish what they started. There have been numerous incidents of gang members waiting nearby after gunning somebody down and when the EMTs show up they will open fire on them to prevent them from rendering aid to the victims. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if they would go so far as to kill the EMTs to prevent them helping.

    They could just as easily walk into the ER and open fire, so while it's a jarring image, and I'm not a fan of it, it's a sad fact that things are so out of control that steps like that are considered necessary to prevent even greater carnage. Now do not under any circumstance construe that to mean I support armed guards at schools, merely explaining why you might see heavily armed guards at a hospital.

    Here locally a lot of the middle schools and high schools usually have one or two police officers to help with security. School Resource Officers is what I believe they are called here. They are armed, but also more highly trained than your average security guard. And one would hope better able to handle situations without getting jumpy and chunking lead down range.

    Anyway you want to look at it, human life is considered cheap in this country, as cheap as some third world countries. And people here will take your life for the most stupid, petty reasons, and not even bat eye.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dongjohnson View Post
    Look at it this way, you have armed guards in many banks and they only carry money. Why not have armed guards where there are 1,500 or so children (far more valuable than money, right?).
    Banks are still getting robbed, last I checked.
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