CT Elementary School Shooting - WTF?!?

[NoWayOut]

I think this is very well worded, and I agree with it wholeheartedly. Human and civil rights are often defined by people willing to die to establish what they think it correct. The road to freedoms is often paved by the blood of the people willing to die for it. There are times when you have to ask yourself, "Is it worth all of this death? Do the ends justify the means?" I think in a case of something like slavery, many people died to stand up for those rights. In a case of something like "The right to bear arms", how many children need to die so that somebody can have a gun because it is their right?

I am not sure what would happen if people of the US did decide that it was time to make gun laws more strict; perhaps making it much more difficult to get a gun and outlawing assault rifles. Can you imagine what would happen as they tried to recall the guns which were once legal, but are now illegal? That might get ugly...

Rylant

Yeah it would get ugly. I personally know of a few gun owners who use the phrase "You can have my gun when you pry it from my cold dead hand", and these guys really do mean it literally. I have no doubt whatsoever that these guys would have to be killed to get their guns, and they would have no problem taking out whoever showed up to try. Hell until I grew the f--k up and saw the light I was one of those types.

Throw in the underground anti-government militias and para-military wingnuts, and it could be very ugly. Guns are absolutely an religion here, and especially in the west and south. Ugly as that would be, things like what happened yesterday are far uglier, and becoming more and more common.

Some very hard truths are going to have to be confronted before we can ever hope to start righting the wrongs of our society and stop the slaughter of innocents. We are going to have to rethink some ideals we hold sacred as the world has changed and moved on in ways no one really ever thought they would. If not this is merely the beginning of truly horrific times, and we will see ever more heinous acts, acts that will sadly make even yesterday's tragedy pale in comparison.

Take a good hard look around and ask yourself if you really think things can't get worse? There is a palpable vibe of anger, contentiousness, disregard for others that is growing day by day, year by year. Do you not look more closely at the faces, into the eyes, of those around you wondering if you just spotted a madman, I know I do. That's no way to live, it may be the way to survive, but just trying to survive isn't living.

[dongjohnson]

I'm generally against most, not all, types of "gun control". BUT we don't have a mental health database to check when selling people guns, really? They're asked on the application if they've ever been treated in an in-patient mental health facility, and that's it? Really?

Come on, people. That's not something we should maybe spend a few million bucks on?

However, I will continually dispute the notion that attempting to make something illegal or ban it is effective as a means of prevention. We've seen how well Prohibition and the War On Drugs work. The hard truth is that it will take an inter-disciplinary approach; more time, effort and money must go in to addressing such an issue. You can't just make another law and expect that to really fix a problem when there are already so many on that front.

Let me give an example of what I'm talking about. Mental health treatment is largely excluded from individual health plans, and is rapidly becoming prohibitively expensive in group health insurance as well. Good luck finding a shrink on Medicaid. Despite the proliferation of depression and anxiety meds, the actual treatment of these issues on a national level is just about nothing. But is that a surprise? Why are people afraid to talk to professionals about it? There's still a large social stigma about it, where it's seen as weak to have such problems, especially for men (who commit 98% of the acts of violence like this).

[blayze]

I think media sensationalism is as much to blame if not more, than gun control in all of this.

I remember perhaps a decade ago in Toronto, there was one summer where there was a series of subway incidents involving people pushing others into the tracks. This happened 4-5 times in a span of a couple of weeks, until the cops finally got their heads out of their asses and realized that all the media attention was motivating other crazy copy-cats to come out of hiding in a bid to grab their 15 minutes of fame. As soon as the media went into blackout, it stopped.

I think Morgan Freeman's comments yesterday capture it best:

MORGAN FREEMAN ON THE SHOOTINGS YESTERDAY:

"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.

It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single victim of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations*, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem."

[dongjohnson]

FANTASTIC post Blayze. My Wife and I were talking about that a few months ago. If we all refused to talk about the specific idiot who did this, it might discourage it in the future. That's certainly not all of the motivation, but in many cases, it is part of it.

[Loch]

I think media sensationalism is as much to blame if not more, than gun control in all of this.

I remember perhaps a decade ago in Toronto, there was one summer where there was a series of subway incidents involving people pushing others into the tracks. This happened 4-5 times in a span of a couple of weeks, until the cops finally got their heads out of their asses and realized that all the media attention was motivating other crazy copy-cats to come out of hiding in a bid to grab their 15 minutes of fame. As soon as the media went into blackout, it stopped.

I think Morgan Freeman's comments yesterday capture it best:

MORGAN FREEMAN ON THE SHOOTINGS YESTERDAY:

"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.

It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single victim of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations*, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem."

I read that in Morgan Freeman's voice...

He does make an excellent point but I still think it is a valid argument that if guns were harder to get this sort of thing would be less likely...

That being said, the world of 24hr infotainment masquerading as 'news' does rather make celebrities of criminals and perhaps that likely doesn't help.

[blayze]

I read that in Morgan Freeman's voice...

I think my own thoughts in Morgan Freeman's voice... is that weird?

[27Blue]

I think media sensationalism is as much to blame if not more, than gun control in all of this.

I remember perhaps a decade ago in Toronto, there was one summer where there was a series of subway incidents involving people pushing others into the tracks. This happened 4-5 times in a span of a couple of weeks, until the cops finally got their heads out of their asses and realized that all the media attention was motivating other crazy copy-cats to come out of hiding in a bid to grab their 15 minutes of fame. As soon as the media went into blackout, it stopped.

I think Morgan Freeman's comments yesterday capture it best:

MORGAN FREEMAN ON THE SHOOTINGS YESTERDAY:

"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.

It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single victim of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations*, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem."

i said the same thing on the first page. it's natural born killers (oliver stone) all over again, and again, and again....

[PrairieDog]

Some interesting stuff by Bill Moyers (one of my favourite journalists) earlier this year after the Aurora shootings - only 5 mins, give it a spin:

http://billmoyers.com/segment/bill-m...under-the-gun/

[Loch]

i said the same thing on the first page. it's natural born killers (oliver stone) all over again, and again, and again....

You did indeed. But to be fair (or grossly unfair) you don't have that soothing authoritative tone that Morgan Freeman possesses...

[27Blue]

You did indeed. But to be fair (or grossly unfair) you don't have that soothing authoritative tone that Morgan Freeman possesses...

i should have used a yoda voice...


"mmmmmm tragic...

And hear nothing about gun control or mental health issues, we will..."



oh forget it...

[cdubb]

hard to imagine anyone stepping up to that challenge at this time.

this post, from Alyssa, poses a similar question;

"I really want someone who advocates against gun control to balance the scales for me, to go ahead and try to explain to me why the inconvenience suffered by gun owners and prospective gun owners under much tighter restrictions on the purchase of guns and ammunition outweighs the death of children in their classrooms, a place where they’re not just supposed to be safe, but to thrive. Explain to me why their suffering is worse than that of the people who died, and lost family members, in the rampage at Aurora, Colorado, where they were drawn to a midnight screening of The Dark Knight Rises out of enthusiasm, because it’s a time when parents with infants can see a movie and trust that they’ll sleep through the screening. Please, balance out for me, the loss of Gabby Giffords’ potential with impatience at a waiting period, or frustration at not being able to fire a certain number of bullets per minute.

Because this is the choice we make, every time. "

I have never fired a gun, and probably don't know anyone who owns one.

I get the fact ppl want a gun to hunt or for self defense to protect their families.

The gun nuts claim they might be attacked by multiple people, so cannot just have one pistol.

But unless it's one of these situations below, you do not need to own multiple semi-automatic weapons in your home
- you are hunting (or hunted by) an Alien, or Predator, or both
- an evil clan of deadly ninjas is after you
- you are stuck in a zombie apocalypse
- a kardashian family member is walking near you
- Gary Bettman/Donald Fehr are nearby


Crazy are the people who thinks guns should be in schools.

[PrairieDog]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczyn...they-will-prot

Yep, they are at it again. These people are evil.

[arctic_rogue]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczyn...they-will-prot

Yep, they are at it again. These people are evil.

I really, really want to go off here. But I will exercise extreme restraint.

You are exactly right, they show total disregard to anything or any view differing from their own. Tolerance and understanding are not words located in the small, ignorant, vocabs. Hopefully this is just an idle threat on their behalf as they've done so in the past.

[Loch]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczyn...they-will-prot

Yep, they are at it again. These people are evil.

These 'Anonymous' guys might become quite popular if they keep up their current behaviour.

The hacker group Anonymous targeted the Westboro Baptist Church website after members announced plans to protest in Sandy Hook. The group released all of the personal information of members of the church.

[bluejays]

Went and picked my littlest one up at preschool today on my lunch break and rejoiced in his innocence and spirit.

I have opinions on guns and politics, but for today I just feel sad.

Exactly.
I feel for those parents and family. Makes you sure appreciate things until there gone.