CT Elementary School Shooting - WTF?!?

[smoothfun]

I work as a janitor at the local high school in my community and can tell you all , GET INVOLVED IN YOUR CHILDS SCHOOL!
Go see what goes on , talk to students , talk to other parents , talk to staff , help be a voice for us because we're banned from speaking publically about some very seriou issues.
As much as we may not like it , we have to face reality.
At anytime anyone could walk through the doors of our school and go reralitively un-noticed.
The "troubled/problem" students , along with some of their parents , are the ones running the school , to a certain extent.
We need laws changed , they are archaic , we need Judges and Lawyers to start using common sense in their work-place.
We need to start dealing with the mess we've allowed to occur.
There are no words to express what has happened to this community but , we can stand up as a society and demand that changes happen.
Enough meetings , enough 2nd chances , enough tradgedy.
For the most part wer are the Govt. , so lets start governing by demanding action!
I'm not talking vigilatism , I'm talking about voting , about getting involved , about making change.
Yes , easier said than done but , if we don't start now it could be our community next.
I'm not one to live in fear but , I'll admit , I'm one of many in our school that is just waiting for something bad to take place.You can feel it , we're called negative , I call it reality.
Trust me , I hope I'm called a fool for the rest of my working days at my school and that nothing tragic ever happens but , I'm afraid...

[wendelclark17]

Saw this cartoon on reddit this morning and thought it illustrated some people's point of view (mine included) quite well .

[PrairieDog]

Saw this cartoon on reddit this morning and thought it illustrated some people's point of view (mine included) quite well .

That really illustrates a lot of the problem.

Gee, I wonder if the NRA is already planning their next convention in Connecticut.

Bill Maher had this to say last night: "Sorry but prayers and giving your kids hugs fix nothing; only having the balls to stand up to our insane selfish gun culture will."

[doulos]

That really illustrates a lot of the problem.

Gee, I wonder if the NRA is already planning their next convention in Connecticut.

Bill Maher had this to say last night: "Sorry but prayers and giving your kids hugs fix nothing; only having the balls to stand up to our insane selfish gun culture will."

I like Bill Maher a lot, and I see what he's saying, but he's flat out wrong here.

Hugs and prayer (even if it is to the flying spaghetti monster) are incredibly effective in helping people through dark times such as these. Long after the media is bored with their 24 hour a day footage and interviewing elementary school kids who just witnessed murder, there will be a town left to deal with the trauma.

No legislation is going to help those folks. Hugs and prayer actually will.

[PrairieDog]

I like Bill Maher a lot, and I see what he's saying, but he's flat out wrong here.

Hugs and prayer (even if it is to the flying spaghetti monster) are incredibly effective in helping people through dark times such as these. Long after the media is bored with their 24 hour a day footage and interviewing elementary school kids who just witnessed murder, there will be a town left to deal with the trauma.

No legislation is going to help those folks. Hugs and prayer actually will.

I think he means in the sense of preventing this stuff from happening again. And we all know it will happen again.

[doulos]

I think he means in the sense of preventing this stuff from happening again. And we all know it will happen again.

I get what he was trying to say. Both are needed is all. "Fixing" a problem like this is not easy..

[smack]

Since Columbine, there's been 31 school shootings in the US, 14 in the rest of the world combined as per many media reports.
People talk about the China school incident with the knife attack, but 0 dead. If he had a gun, you still think 0 dead?

I'm not knowledgeable on the gun topic so I can't throw out advice but something tells me gun accessibility is a problem in the US. And I'm not asking this to be a smart ass but for the many people who say it's their right to have a gun to protect themselves, are there any stats on how many times guns have saved families protecting themselves? Really curious to see the other side of this argument?

[lockedge]

Since Columbine, there's been 31 school shootings in the US, 14 in the rest of the world combined as per many media reports.
People talk about the China school incident with the knife attack, but 0 dead. If he had a gun, you still think 0 dead?

I'm not knowledgeable on the gun topic so I can't throw out advice but something tells me gun accessibility is a problem in the US. And I'm not asking this to be a smart ass but for the many people who say it's their right to have a gun to protect themselves, are there any stats on how many times guns have saved families protecting themselves? Really curious to see the other side of this argument?

There's a widespread gun culture in the USA that IMO cannot be extinguished. It can't be legislated away, and guns are so accessible that having gun control laws in place would probably not do a lot. It could help, a tiny, tiny bit, but generally in the USA, if you want a gun, you can find one. Is it worth challenging this gun culture, when most countries' gun-related deaths don't break fifty, but in the USA, it's often over 10k per year?


And another thing about the culture in the USA is that it's horrendously stigmatizing those with any form of mental illness. Look at the amount of people who get away on "insanity" pleas. That Anders breivik guy in Norway...he knew exactly what he was doing, but because is was so horrific, people felt he must be mentally ill. This shooter guy in Connecticut was not insane or whatever. He was angry. Maybe fueled a little by depression, but normally depression doesn't cause acts of aggression like that.

So he goes and shoots up a school and kills a lot of innocents who deserve respect, and whose families deserve some respect right now, but the media isn't giving them any because it sensationalizes everything and turns everything into a damn circus, that only fuels others to commit these terrible acts.

It's like this cycle of death that just keeps continuing because of the culture down there. This stuff happens elsewhere, but it's not as culturally supported.

[spitball]

Since Columbine, there's been 31 school shootings in the US, 14 in the rest of the world combined as per many media reports.
People talk about the China school incident with the knife attack, but 0 dead. If he had a gun, you still think 0 dead?

I'm not knowledgeable on the gun topic so I can't throw out advice but something tells me gun accessibility is a problem in the US. And I'm not asking this to be a smart ass but for the many people who say it's their right to have a gun to protect themselves, are there any stats on how many times guns have saved families protecting themselves? Really curious to see the other side of this argument?

hard to imagine anyone stepping up to that challenge at this time.

this post, from Alyssa, poses a similar question;

"I really want someone who advocates against gun control to balance the scales for me, to go ahead and try to explain to me why the inconvenience suffered by gun owners and prospective gun owners under much tighter restrictions on the purchase of guns and ammunition outweighs the death of children in their classrooms, a place where they’re not just supposed to be safe, but to thrive. Explain to me why their suffering is worse than that of the people who died, and lost family members, in the rampage at Aurora, Colorado, where they were drawn to a midnight screening of The Dark Knight Rises out of enthusiasm, because it’s a time when parents with infants can see a movie and trust that they’ll sleep through the screening. Please, balance out for me, the loss of Gabby Giffords’ potential with impatience at a waiting period, or frustration at not being able to fire a certain number of bullets per minute.

Because this is the choice we make, every time. "

[arctic_rogue]

There's a widespread gun culture in the USA that IMO cannot be extinguished. It can't be legislated away, and guns are so accessible that having gun control laws in place would probably not do a lot. It could help, a tiny, tiny bit, but generally in the USA, if you want a gun, you can find one. Is it worth challenging this gun culture, when most countries' gun-related deaths don't break fifty, but in the USA, it's often over 10k per year?


And another thing about the culture in the USA is that it's horrendously stigmatizing those with any form of mental illness. Look at the amount of people who get away on "insanity" pleas. That Anders breivik guy in Norway...he knew exactly what he was doing, but because is was so horrific, people felt he must be mentally ill. This shooter guy in Connecticut was not insane or whatever. He was angry. Maybe fueled a little by depression, but normally depression doesn't cause acts of aggression like that.

So he goes and shoots up a school and kills a lot of innocents who deserve respect, and whose families deserve some respect right now, but the media isn't giving them any because it sensationalizes everything and turns everything into a damn circus, that only fuels others to commit these terrible acts.

It's like this cycle of death that just keeps continuing because of the culture down there. This stuff happens elsewhere, but it's not as culturally supported.

I want to start this post by stating that I am a gun owner. Hunting purposes only - no home or self defense.

With the failed long gun registry failed here in Canada, aside from a ban the only approach I can see working is a more strict licensing procedure for guns. Unfortunately, that does not alleviate the problem of illegally acquired guns. It's a very tough situation that cannot be easily solved.

[Bomm Bastic]

A faction of wingnuts here in the US in concert with bloated corporate CEOs and their lobbyists have this disingenous if not delusional notion that having a right to own a gun is synonymous with having absolute unfettered access to any and all fire arms. They will always revert to a slippery slope canard (invalid as it is) when any opposition rears. Add a dash of media hyperbole and voila!

Unfortunately, the 5-10 year old demographic can't vote nor do have lobbyists in DC buying votes.

[SlobTheGreat]

...and the very next day..

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/12/15...abama-hospital

[Rylant]

hard to imagine anyone stepping up to that challenge at this time.

this post, from Alyssa, poses a similar question;

"I really want someone who advocates against gun control to balance the scales for me, to go ahead and try to explain to me why the inconvenience suffered by gun owners and prospective gun owners under much tighter restrictions on the purchase of guns and ammunition outweighs the death of children in their classrooms, a place where they’re not just supposed to be safe, but to thrive. Explain to me why their suffering is worse than that of the people who died, and lost family members, in the rampage at Aurora, Colorado, where they were drawn to a midnight screening of The Dark Knight Rises out of enthusiasm, because it’s a time when parents with infants can see a movie and trust that they’ll sleep through the screening. Please, balance out for me, the loss of Gabby Giffords’ potential with impatience at a waiting period, or frustration at not being able to fire a certain number of bullets per minute.

Because this is the choice we make, every time. "

I think this is very well worded, and I agree with it wholeheartedly. Human and civil rights are often defined by people willing to die to establish what they think it correct. The road to freedoms is often paved by the blood of the people willing to die for it. There are times when you have to ask yourself, "Is it worth all of this death? Do the ends justify the means?" I think in a case of something like slavery, many people died to stand up for those rights. In a case of something like "The right to bear arms", how many children need to die so that somebody can have a gun because it is their right?

I am not sure what would happen if people of the US did decide that it was time to make gun laws more strict; perhaps making it much more difficult to get a gun and outlawing assault rifles. Can you imagine what would happen as they tried to recall the guns which were once legal, but are now illegal? That might get ugly...

Rylant

[Fast Tony DeNiro]

And I'm not asking this to be a smart ass but for the many people who say it's their right to have a gun to protect themselves, are there any stats on how many times guns have saved families protecting themselves? Really curious to see the other side of this argument?

Fair question. I don't have any stats because I doubt stats are kept on something like that, but when I used to work in a hunting/fishing store there were always gun magazines laying around and I'd read them when I was bored. The letters to the editor were always chock full of stories about people successfully defending themselves from an attacker by using a gun. Plus talking to the customers who would come into the store.....guns have protected smart gun owners (which are 99% of owners) many many times.

That being said, I think assault rifles need to go. I'm pro-gun, I own some guns, but there is absolutely no reason for anyone to own an assault rifle. Sure it's fun to take one out target shooting but the inconvenience of not having that option just doesn't outweigh the fact they can be used much more effectively for things like we've witnessed the last few days.

[Loch]

Fair question. I don't have any stats because I doubt stats are kept on something like that, but when I used to work in a hunting/fishing store there were always gun magazines laying around and I'd read them when I was bored. The letters to the editor were always chock full of stories about people successfully defending themselves from an attacker by using a gun. Plus talking to the customers who would come into the store.....guns have protected smart gun owners (which are 99% of owners) many many times.

Stats are kept on this stuff. Back when the Colorado shootings happened I looked it up. Now to be fair this doesn't factor in 'scaring crooks off with your gun' but that is absurdly hard to quantify.

Incidentally, the estimates for 2010 put approximately 2% of the gun deaths in the US in the justifiable/self-defence bracket. That was almost double the number from 10 yrs earlier, but a broad number changes to the 'stand your ground' laws are partly responsible for that.

If guns are needed for self-defence and they kill 98% of their victims in other circumstances then something is wrong.

For what it is worth, a gun is still about twice as likely to be used for suicide as it is for murder in the US.