View Poll Results: Who would you rather have...(Points only league, CAT's Below)

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  • Krejci

    4 19.05%
  • Carter

    12 57.14%
  • Callahan

    2 9.52%
  • Other

    3 14.29%
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Thread: The Marginal Debate. Krejci, Carter or Callahan?

  1. #1
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    Default The Marginal Debate. Krejci, Carter or Callahan?

    Currently a Carter owner. And less than thrilled with his past season. Not sure he'll return to the fantasy stud he used to be 2 and 3 years ago.

    So I'm left pondering the following 3 players.

    Carter - Reunited with Richards and if he's not playing with Richards, he's lineing up with Kopitar. On a Defence minded team, not bad offensive partners.

    2 years removed from a stellar season below which ranked him 2nd on my team of skaters with 636 Fan Pts (Ranked 12th in the league)

    pts +/- PIM ppp GW
    66 27 39 17 7

    Am I selling Carter short here?

    or Consider

    Krejci - in previous thread comparing him to Max P...I got the impression that he's probably a 60 - 65 point, soft player who may be redundant on his team considering the depth chart and C's that can over take him. But his exposure and ice time even on the 2nd line lends to his favor, and Boston is quite an offensive threat, so this Assist machine may still hold value...but for how long?

    or

    Ryan Callahan (personally...I'm a former owner and I found him boring but...) Has been gaining in fantasy value over the past couple years. It appears he won't see much time with the TRUE offensive threats (Nash, Richards, Gabby), but there's always potential lines could shuffel. My league doesn't count shots or hits, so some of his peripheral value has been thwarted for me, but could this 25/25 50ish PIM guy be trending up? What's his Ceiling?

    Which of these Marginal talents is worth the keep...if any. Or is my best option to disregard any of them and Move Carter for an upgrade elsewhere?
    Team:
    C - Tavares, Getzlaf, Kuznetsov, J.Jokinen,
    L - Hall, Kunitz, JVR,
    R - Perry, Eberle, Gaborik, Pominville, Silfverberg(LW/RW)
    D - Karlsson, OEL, (RW/D)Burns, Ehrhoff, Bieksa, Gudas,
    G - Crawford, Bobrovsky , Neuvirth, M.Jones, Raanta, Lack, Gustavsson


    11 Team Keeper league with Yahoo

    Roster (14 Kept Players): C, C, LW, LW, RW, RW, D, D, D, D, G, G, Util, Util (Can keep a 3rd G with Util)

    (Weighted Category Points: see below).

    Skaters -
    (Points: G a/o A) 6
    (+/-) 3
    (PIM) 1
    (PPP) 5
    (GWG) 5

    Goaltenders
    (W) 15
    (GA) -10
    (SV) 1
    (SHO) 15

  2. #2
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    I think Carter's value takes a hit playing for the Darryl Sutter Kings and I also think he takes a hit because he's been so injury prone the last couple of seasons but there's no denying the talent he has. None of those guys puts up huge amounts of PIM to swing this one way or the other so you are really looking for the top point producer and I think that's Carter, particularly with RW eligibility.

    Krejci is the second best option as he'll always be productive and give you nice peripherals in this scoring system but I think the upside with Carter is a little higher. If you went Krejci I wouldn't hold it against you though. I'd bet 3 out 5 years he's the most productive of the three though never game-breakingly so.

    Callahan seems irrelevant to me in this discussion. His upside maxes out around 60 and the peripherals like PPP are never going to be there in large amounts.
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    I think I have to take Krejci here. He's on a good scoring team and has consistently put up over 60pts for a while now. Can't really say that for Carter and Callahan.

    If SOG was a category, it would be Carter. So it's close between Carter and Krejci.
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    Between these guys I'd probably go with Carter due to his dual-eligibility. Though it's close with Krejci and him and I can see Krejci outscoring Carter but not sure it'll be enough of a difference when comparing their positional values. Callahan without hits and SOG isn't anything special.

    But if this is for your last keeper spot, I'd rather keep Granlund over any of those three guys.
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    G, A, +/-, PIM, PPP, SHP, GWG, SOG
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    W, GAA, SV, SV%, SO
    23 Man Roster - 3C, 3LW, 3RW, 3F, 6D, 1G, 4BN, 4IR
    27 Man Minor Team

    C-
    Tavares, Stepan, Granlund, Bjugstad, Couturier, Shaw, Desharnais
    LW- Ryan, Perron, Killorn, Ennis
    RW-
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    D-
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    G- Lehtonen, Rämö

    F: Wennberg,
    Jensen, McNeill, Fast, Leivo, Knight, O'Dell, Archibald, Arnold, Guptill, Dalpe, Moser, Rinaldo
    D: Schultz, Gelinas, Bortuzzo, Gryba, Beaulieu, Koekkoek, McCabe, Johns
    G: Berra, Talbot, Mazanec, Brossoit, Ullmark

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carcillo View Post
    Between these guys I'd probably go with Carter due to his dual-eligibility. Though it's close with Krejci and him and I can see Krejci outscoring Carter but not sure it'll be enough of a difference when comparing their positional values. Callahan without hits and SOG isn't anything special.

    But if this is for your last keeper spot, I'd rather keep Granlund over any of those three guys.
    Good Point on Granlund. Tks for that!

    I expect Voracek would be kept over each of these guys aswell.
    Team:
    C - Tavares, Getzlaf, Kuznetsov, J.Jokinen,
    L - Hall, Kunitz, JVR,
    R - Perry, Eberle, Gaborik, Pominville, Silfverberg(LW/RW)
    D - Karlsson, OEL, (RW/D)Burns, Ehrhoff, Bieksa, Gudas,
    G - Crawford, Bobrovsky , Neuvirth, M.Jones, Raanta, Lack, Gustavsson


    11 Team Keeper league with Yahoo

    Roster (14 Kept Players): C, C, LW, LW, RW, RW, D, D, D, D, G, G, Util, Util (Can keep a 3rd G with Util)

    (Weighted Category Points: see below).

    Skaters -
    (Points: G a/o A) 6
    (+/-) 3
    (PIM) 1
    (PPP) 5
    (GWG) 5

    Goaltenders
    (W) 15
    (GA) -10
    (SV) 1
    (SHO) 15

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    out of the three carter is clearly a step ahead imo. i also would keep voracek first though.
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    4C-4LW-4RW-6D-2G-5bench-unlimited farm.

    C= crosby,m.koivu,malkin,zajak,grabovski,b.richards
    LW= ovechkin,nash,dubinsky
    RW= downie,hemsky,callahan,voracek,perry,gagner,brouwe r
    D= green,doughty,phaneuf,wisniewski,girardi,karlsson, smid
    G= rask,lundqvist,ward,price

    FARM=kreider,grachev,enroth,kuznetsov,ennis,rundbl ad,bjugstad,radulov,montoya, adam,t.erixon,cowan,s.elliot,j.faulk,cormier,petro v,orlov,stone,eakin,grigorenko,silfverberg,brodin, atkinson,paajarvi,Nichushkin,mantha,jenner

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    Quote Originally Posted by havanablast21 View Post
    Currently a Carter owner.

    ...

    So I'm left pondering the following 3 players.

    ...

    Which of these Marginal talents is worth the keep...if any. Or is my best option to disregard any of them and Move Carter for an upgrade elsewhere?
    Just curious for clarification - you only own Carter right (based on your signature)? If so, then how do Krejci and Callahan come into play? Are you thinking about making a swap if either are more valuable than Carter?
    Yahoo Baseball, One-year, 20 teams, Rotisserie (click below to show settings)
     
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    C,1B,2B,3B,SS,3OF,Util/2SP,2RP,3P,5BN,2DL,1NA * R,HR,RBI,SB,AVG,OPS/W,SV,HLD,K,ERA,WHIP * Max games/innings=162/1250

    Baseball is Life:
    C,1B,2B,3B,SS,IF,3OF,2Util/4SP,3RP,2P,4BN,3DL * R,HR,RBI,SB,AVG,OPS/W,SV,HLD,K,ERA,WHIP * Max games/innings=162/1475

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    Quote Originally Posted by arctic_rogue View Post
    I think I have to take Krejci here. He's on a good scoring team and has consistently put up over 60pts for a while now. Can't really say that for Carter and Callahan.
    Cally aside, I don't understand your statement above.

    Carter- 2008/09 - 84pts, +23, 68 PIM, 24PPP and 12GWG (82 games)
    Krejci - n/a

    Carter- 2009/10 - 61pts, +2, 38 PIM, 22PPP and 6 GWG (74 games)
    Krejci - 2009-10 - 52pts, +8, 26 PIM, 14PPP and 3 GWG (79 games)

    Carter- 2010/11 - 66pts, +27, 39 PIM, 17PPP and 7 GWG (80 games)
    Krejci - 2010/11 - 62pts, -5, 36 PIM, 11PPP and 2 GWG (75 games)

    Carter- 2011/12 - 34pts, -12, 16 PIM, 13PPP and 2 GWG (55 games)
    Krejci - 2011/12 - 62pts, -5, 36 PIM, 11PPP and 2 GWG (79 games)

    My Summary having had a chance to really analyze this...Carter has put up 60+ pts for a while now (scoreing over ppg pace once in his career). Krejci has put up 62 for 2 years.

    Looking at these guys over the past 3 or 4 years, I don't think there's any comparison between the 2. Besides Carter's lack lustred performance last year, where he still put up more PPP and just as many GWG as Krejci in 24 less games across 2 teams, I'd go as far as to say that Krejci doesn't come CLOSE to Carter's production and fantasy value (over this time span) and that's not even counting Hits and SOG's.

    Unless your arguement is that Carter will FAIL to continually hit 60+ points moving forward.

    There's no doubt that Carter's output has been trending downward since his 84 point season, but the only time he really stumbled over the past 4 years was a year that he was traded to HOCKEY HELL...got Hurt...and spent his 55 games adjusting to 2 teams.

    Honestly...I'm starting to think that I may be undervalueing Carter. (Wow...I've convinced myself!)
    Last edited by havanablast21; December 11, 2012 at 10:51 AM.
    Team:
    C - Tavares, Getzlaf, Kuznetsov, J.Jokinen,
    L - Hall, Kunitz, JVR,
    R - Perry, Eberle, Gaborik, Pominville, Silfverberg(LW/RW)
    D - Karlsson, OEL, (RW/D)Burns, Ehrhoff, Bieksa, Gudas,
    G - Crawford, Bobrovsky , Neuvirth, M.Jones, Raanta, Lack, Gustavsson


    11 Team Keeper league with Yahoo

    Roster (14 Kept Players): C, C, LW, LW, RW, RW, D, D, D, D, G, G, Util, Util (Can keep a 3rd G with Util)

    (Weighted Category Points: see below).

    Skaters -
    (Points: G a/o A) 6
    (+/-) 3
    (PIM) 1
    (PPP) 5
    (GWG) 5

    Goaltenders
    (W) 15
    (GA) -10
    (SV) 1
    (SHO) 15

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    I picked other and I think you should got with Voracek.
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    H2H, Salary Cap 83.9mil, Player actual salaries
    2 Week scoring period
    G,A,PTS,GWG,PIM,SOG,STP,HT,BL,+/-,W,GAA,SV,SO
    Starters: 12 Forwards, 6 Defense, 2 Goalies

    F - Toews, Perry, E.Staal, Vanek, Lucic, Skinner, Simmonds, Wingels, Nielson, R. Smith, Gallagher, Kreider
    D - Phaneuf, Faulk, Brodie, Regehr, Stone, Guenin
    G - Hiller, Khudobin
    Bench - Bollig, Clune, Penner, Fisher, Killhorn, Johnson, Stalock

    Prospects - Petrovic, Bjugstad, Dalpe, Poirier, Barberio, Barrie, Olsen, Wey

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    Quote Originally Posted by horrorfan View Post
    Just curious for clarification - you only own Carter right (based on your signature)? If so, then how do Krejci and Callahan come into play? Are you thinking about making a swap if either are more valuable than Carter?
    I was approached by the owner of both Cally and for Krejci (in my attempts to shop Carter around for a defensive upgrade). Carter has been getting trashed for a long time on these boards...it made me wonder if I would be selling low on him.

    Clearly I would be for Cally...but I think I also would be for Krejci.

    For now...I think I'll hang on to Carter and make a decisions between Carter and Voracek (assuming I keep Granlund) when I'm forced to. (baring a better trade offer).
    Team:
    C - Tavares, Getzlaf, Kuznetsov, J.Jokinen,
    L - Hall, Kunitz, JVR,
    R - Perry, Eberle, Gaborik, Pominville, Silfverberg(LW/RW)
    D - Karlsson, OEL, (RW/D)Burns, Ehrhoff, Bieksa, Gudas,
    G - Crawford, Bobrovsky , Neuvirth, M.Jones, Raanta, Lack, Gustavsson


    11 Team Keeper league with Yahoo

    Roster (14 Kept Players): C, C, LW, LW, RW, RW, D, D, D, D, G, G, Util, Util (Can keep a 3rd G with Util)

    (Weighted Category Points: see below).

    Skaters -
    (Points: G a/o A) 6
    (+/-) 3
    (PIM) 1
    (PPP) 5
    (GWG) 5

    Goaltenders
    (W) 15
    (GA) -10
    (SV) 1
    (SHO) 15

  11. #11
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    Carter
    Krejci
    Callahan

    Some notes:
    1. You should probably clean up your SIG and practice not calling your league "Points Only". It's a point-system, yes... but it's not strictly goals-assists points... it's confusing, that is all. If you want to clarify, just call it "Weighted-scoring categories"... or something like that.

    2. I think Carter is a terrific buy-low for this year.
    He had a terrible season. Terrible. But he does play well with Mike Richards. The LA PP sputtered a bit last season. Doughty is not as bad as his numbers. Voynov is getting better. I think Jack Johnson is/was actually a little bit of a chemistry-buster, to be honest. In Yahoo! Carter is one of the few mis-labeled players. He's currently listed only as C... even though he only played RW in LA. Don't sell low on this. I'm not sure what they'll do with his pos.elig. if there is a season but long-term, he's a RW and could be valuable in that spot.

    My predictions:
    1. Carter 62pts with bumps for GWG & PPP (20-25)
    2. Krejci 65pts no extras really, perhaps 20 PPP
    3. Callahan 55pts no extras really, probably only 10-15 PPP (especially now losing PP1 time to Nash/B.Richards/Gaborik as main PP players)

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pengwin7 View Post
    Some notes:
    1. You should probably clean up your SIG and practice not calling your league "Points Only". It's a point-system, yes... but it's not strictly goals-assists points... it's confusing, that is all. If you want to clarify, just call it "Weighted-scoring categories"... or something like that.
    Good suggestion. I like to call such leagues 'category based points leagues' or just 'category points leagues'. They are points leagues so that part should probably stay.
    Yahoo Baseball, One-year, 20 teams, Rotisserie (click below to show settings)
     
    Midsummer Classic:
    C,1B,2B,3B,SS,3OF,Util/2SP,2RP,3P,5BN,2DL,1NA * R,HR,RBI,SB,AVG,OPS/W,SV,HLD,K,ERA,WHIP * Max games/innings=162/1250

    Baseball is Life:
    C,1B,2B,3B,SS,IF,3OF,2Util/4SP,3RP,2P,4BN,3DL * R,HR,RBI,SB,AVG,OPS/W,SV,HLD,K,ERA,WHIP * Max games/innings=162/1475

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pengwin7 View Post
    1. You should probably clean up your SIG and practice not calling your league "Points Only". It's a point-system, yes... but it's not strictly goals-assists points... it's confusing, that is all. If you want to clarify, just call it "Weighted-scoring categories"... or something like that.
    Thanks Pengwin (and Horror). Truth be told...I've stuggled with the true definition of my league since I started posting here. I went as far as to research "ROTO" and "POINTS ONLY" online...and all I was able to confirm is that this is NOT ROTO. I thought POINTS ONLY referred to "Yahoo Points" Or total points accumulated, rather than head to head...or categories where you can max out on points based on number of teams per category.

    Weighted Scoring Categories is more accurate you think? I'll make the change. Really appreciate the suggestion and insight!
    Team:
    C - Tavares, Getzlaf, Kuznetsov, J.Jokinen,
    L - Hall, Kunitz, JVR,
    R - Perry, Eberle, Gaborik, Pominville, Silfverberg(LW/RW)
    D - Karlsson, OEL, (RW/D)Burns, Ehrhoff, Bieksa, Gudas,
    G - Crawford, Bobrovsky , Neuvirth, M.Jones, Raanta, Lack, Gustavsson


    11 Team Keeper league with Yahoo

    Roster (14 Kept Players): C, C, LW, LW, RW, RW, D, D, D, D, G, G, Util, Util (Can keep a 3rd G with Util)

    (Weighted Category Points: see below).

    Skaters -
    (Points: G a/o A) 6
    (+/-) 3
    (PIM) 1
    (PPP) 5
    (GWG) 5

    Goaltenders
    (W) 15
    (GA) -10
    (SV) 1
    (SHO) 15

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    Quote Originally Posted by havanablast21 View Post
    Thanks Pengwin (and Horror). Truth be told...I've stuggled with the true definition of my league since I started posting here. I went as far as to research "ROTO" and "POINTS ONLY" online...and all I was able to confirm is that this is NOT ROTO. I thought POINTS ONLY referred to "Yahoo Points" Or total points accumulated, rather than head to head...or categories where you can max out on points based on number of teams per category.

    Weighted Scoring Categories is more accurate you think? I'll make the change. Really appreciate the suggestion and insight!
    I think you should keep the word 'points' as this is the actual type of league, with weighted categories. So perhaps 'Weighted Category Points'?
    Yahoo Baseball, One-year, 20 teams, Rotisserie (click below to show settings)
     
    Midsummer Classic:
    C,1B,2B,3B,SS,3OF,Util/2SP,2RP,3P,5BN,2DL,1NA * R,HR,RBI,SB,AVG,OPS/W,SV,HLD,K,ERA,WHIP * Max games/innings=162/1250

    Baseball is Life:
    C,1B,2B,3B,SS,IF,3OF,2Util/4SP,3RP,2P,4BN,3DL * R,HR,RBI,SB,AVG,OPS/W,SV,HLD,K,ERA,WHIP * Max games/innings=162/1475

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    Quote Originally Posted by horrorfan View Post
    I think you should keep the word 'points' as this is the actual type of league, with weighted categories. So perhaps 'Weighted Category Points'?
    "Weighted Category Points" it is. I'm relieved to see that I'm not the only one who struggled with defining my league.
    Team:
    C - Tavares, Getzlaf, Kuznetsov, J.Jokinen,
    L - Hall, Kunitz, JVR,
    R - Perry, Eberle, Gaborik, Pominville, Silfverberg(LW/RW)
    D - Karlsson, OEL, (RW/D)Burns, Ehrhoff, Bieksa, Gudas,
    G - Crawford, Bobrovsky , Neuvirth, M.Jones, Raanta, Lack, Gustavsson


    11 Team Keeper league with Yahoo

    Roster (14 Kept Players): C, C, LW, LW, RW, RW, D, D, D, D, G, G, Util, Util (Can keep a 3rd G with Util)

    (Weighted Category Points: see below).

    Skaters -
    (Points: G a/o A) 6
    (+/-) 3
    (PIM) 1
    (PPP) 5
    (GWG) 5

    Goaltenders
    (W) 15
    (GA) -10
    (SV) 1
    (SHO) 15

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