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Thread: The NHL players need a reality check...I think

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by eyemissgilmour View Post
    Fine, have it your way. I'd rather have the NHL get tough and knock the market value of guys like Nik Kulemin back under 2 mil per season, if possible. For the health of so many of the teams. There are so many guys like Kulemin who have never won a thing in the NHL, but you guys say they are worth fighting for. I disagree. So be it.

    p.s. For the record, I like Kulemin. I just think he's overpaid. And I think most (not all) players like him are similarly overpaid. In 20 years, we won't even remember those guys played in the league. And yet they have become multi millionaires, set for life, off the wages of people like you and me. How special are they really, to deserve that...
    How about taking up a book on basic free market capitalism? The market decides the going rate. The market is supply and demand. If players of Kulemin's skillset is in a certain demand and there is a certain supply, then he will get what the market dictates for those factors. It's that easy.
    GO WINGS!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dakkster View Post
    How about taking up a book on basic free market capitalism? The market decides the going rate. The market is supply and demand. If players of Kulemin's skillset is in a certain demand and there is a certain supply, then he will get what the market dictates for those factors. It's that easy.
    Except player's salaries are already artificially kept lower through a salary cap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by doulos View Post
    Except player's salaries are already artificially kept lower through a salary cap.
    As a slight non sequitur:
    This theory makes the Gomez deal seem so much worse. Maybe the next CBA will be Sather-proof.
    /S

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loch View Post
    As a slight non sequitur:
    This theory makes the Gomez deal seem so much worse. Maybe the next CBA will be Sather-proof.
    I think that there is some sort of universal law that states that all truths must, by their nature, make Gomez' Salary look worse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eyemissgilmour View Post
    This is a completely irrelevant tangent. So the market dictated that Kulemin should get paid what he gets paid. Yeah, that's true.
    I'm saying he's overpaid.
    One does not contradict the other.
    The market says Crosby should get paid what he gets paid. I'm saying he's underpaid.
    Again, both of the statements can co-exist. If you want to say I'm calling the internal NHL free market out of whack, ok then.

    With a 5 year max on contract years, and no salary cap, Crosby would get 20 mil per season. Easily. With a salary cap, he could get around 12-15. He's worth it. And that would push down contracts for people nobody pays to watch anyway (e.g. Kulemin). That's all I'm saying.

    With a CBA, contract limits, salary caps etc the NHL is NOT a free market so don't bother wasting money at amazon looking for a book on the topic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by doulos View Post
    With a CBA, contract limits, salary caps etc the NHL is NOT a free market so don't bother wasting money at amazon looking for a book on the topic.
    How does one waste money at amazon looking for a book?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Guru View Post
    How does one waste money at amazon looking for a book?
    Isn't it obvious?

    Time = Money
    /S

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    Prospects: (F) Barre-Boulet, Khovanov, Beckman, Greig, N. Robertson, Fagemo, Tuomalaa, (D) Ceulemans, Hughes, Schneider, Zboril

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    Touche sirs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eyemissgilmour View Post
    This is a completely irrelevant tangent. So the market dictated that Kulemin should get paid what he gets paid. Yeah, that's true.
    I'm saying he's overpaid.
    One does not contradict the other.
    The market says Crosby should get paid what he gets paid. I'm saying he's underpaid.
    Again, both of the statements can co-exist. If you want to say I'm calling the internal NHL free market out of whack, ok then.

    With a 5 year max on contract years, and no salary cap, Crosby would get 20 mil per season. Easily. With a salary cap, he could get around 12-15. He's worth it. And that would push down contracts for people nobody pays to watch anyway (e.g. Kulemin). That's all I'm saying.
    And a hedge fund manager is probably considered overpaid at a couple hundred million bucks a year by most people, but it's still the market price at this point. Of course there are a ton of different factors, but it doesn't matter what you or I or anyone else thinks, because Nikolai Kulemin's price is what someone wants to pay him. Accept that.
    GO WINGS!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DuklaNation View Post
    I've always said stop overpaying the mediocre players. Sign some AHL players at a cheaper rate for similar production. Watching the Rochester/Toronto game tonight on SN, the quality of the game isnt that much different than the NHL. If anything some of the games seem more exciting from a fan's perspective (maybe because the offense is slightly better?).
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Guru View Post
    I totally agree with that.

    Sign AHL/European guys at a much cheaper rate and the quality of play will make it justifiable.

    Im also a big fan of AHL/Euro guys getting their chance in the NHL and making the best of it.
    If those AHL and Euro players were viable options then they would be the ones signed to NHL deals over the "mediocre" NHL players. The reason most of these guys will play where they do is that once they are put into an NHL game their abilities turn out to be less than mediocre in the NHL platform, hence the reason they are not NHLers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by eyemissgilmour View Post
    This is a completely irrelevant tangent. So the market dictated that Kulemin should get paid what he gets paid. Yeah, that's true.
    I'm saying he's overpaid.
    One does not contradict the other.
    The market says Crosby should get paid what he gets paid. I'm saying he's underpaid.
    The market dictates, it is that simple as Dakkster stated. Whether you deem salaries too high or low is arbitrary if not capricious.
    @SmittysRant

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    Except the value of the "middle tier" players is inflated because it isn't a free market. In a free market the top end players would earn far more then they currently do, leaving less money for the "middle tier".

    Those players are earning their "value" within the structure of the NHL, but that doesn't mean that it is connected to what their real value would be outside of that structure.

    What eyemissgilmour seems to be advocating is a change in the structure of the CBA to actually be MORE free market so that the top end players get what they are worth and the middle tier players actually get less.

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    Quote Originally Posted by doulos View Post
    Except the value of the "middle tier" players is inflated because it isn't a free market. In a free market the top end players would earn far more then they currently do, leaving less money for the "middle tier".

    Those players are earning their "value" within the structure of the NHL, but that doesn't mean that it is connected to what their real value would be outside of that structure.

    What eyemissgilmour seems to be advocating is a change in the structure of the CBA to actually be MORE free market so that the top end players get what they are worth and the middle tier players actually get less.
    Free in an absolute sense, no. But no market ever is, practically speaking.

    Does the current model deviate from a normal distribution?
    @SmittysRant

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bomm Bastic View Post
    Free in an absolute sense, no. But no market ever is, practically speaking.

    Does the current model deviate from a normal distribution?
    No idea, someone with math jedi powers could tell us

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    Quote Originally Posted by doulos View Post
    No idea, someone with math jedi powers could tell us
    Yeah I looked, but couldn't find any stats. Maybe CapGeek?

    I think if you can demonstrate a non-standard dist. among NHL salaries you have an argument for salaries being "too high" or "too low". Otherwise, it's just opinion.

    Which is fine...I'm not saying giving an opinion is bad, but it is what it is - arbitrary.
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