2012 draft re-done...

[torpedo]

Based on what I have seen (and keep in mind it is early) I think Grigorenko would easily be a top 4 pick if this was done over. There were lots of questions about him at the draft but keep in mind he had also just finished battling Mono. Given his start this year and his ability to dominate I have no doubt he would have been top 4. And that is not just based on regular Q play, the guy looked great at the subway series.

Teams questioned his work ethic and from what I can see they were wrong to do so. This guys is packed with skill, size, and a want to win.

Big miss by a lot of teams.

Can't wait to see him at the WJC.

[Hollywood]

Some thoughts...

Does that Murray's injury put him down a bit?

Grigs should definitely be up...

I think that Morgan Rielly would fit in nicely with the Isles....

Subban looks like a steal right now...

[yougo]

I can guarantee that you are wrong here. Teams wouldn't regret a pick until at least 3-4 years down the line. Especially when it comes to Grigorenko.

Pretty sure you are wrong here. It didn't take 3 years for Minnesota to regret drafting Pouliot ahead of Price. Same with the Rangers and McIlrath over Fowler,Tarasenko. Also I'm certain it didn't take the Leafs 3-4 years to regret their Kadri pick over Kulikov or Ellis.

[Big Ev]

Pretty sure you are wrong here. It didn't take 3 years for Minnesota to regret drafting Pouliot ahead of Price. Same with the Rangers and McIlrath over Fowler,Tarasenko. Also I'm certain it didn't take the Leafs 3-4 years to regret their Kadri pick over Kulikov or Ellis.

When you're drafting 18 year olds, yes it takes that long to decide whether or not a pick has turned out. This isn't the NBA of NFL draft. The sooner fans realize that, the better.

The Rangers one is a very, very poor example as well since it has only been 2 years since that draft and neither McIlrath or Tarasenko has played in the NHl, while Fowler has not knocked anybody's socks off.

You know why nobody is regretting passing on Grigorenko? Because every single team knew his production would be where it is at right now. Everybody in the world know he would tear up that league this year. That's not what drafting's about. But keep on thinking that.

[Axeman33]

You know why nobody is regretting passing on Grigorenko? Because every single team knew his production would be where it is at right now. Everybody in the world know he would tear up that league this year. That's not what drafting's about. But keep on thinking that.

Exactly what I was referring to in one of my earlier posts in here. His offense was never in question. Theres obviously more to Grigorenko then most of us fans realize and whatever it is, the scouts know it and decided he wasnt worth the risk. Will some teams regret passing on him in a couple years, maybe, but theres no way that 10 teams passed on his skill without a real good reason. (I say 10 because I took Edmonton out of the addition, their pick was pretty obvious)

[Fast Tony DeNiro]

Grigorenko was expected to dominate the Q this season. If he wasn't scoring at the clip he's going, then people would be saying maybe 12 was too high. It's moot to raise Grigorengo up because he's a 19 year old - at one time potential 1st overall pick, likely in the NHL after the lockout - dominating a junior league. Yes he's almost at 2 PPG, so is JC Lipon and he wasn't even drafted.

Plus who above him as shown any reason to be dropped? No one has been bad enough in 25 games to justify dropping in their draft ranking. Hence, re-drafting this early is pointless.

[yougo]

When you're drafting 18 year olds, yes it takes that long to decide whether or not a pick has turned out. This isn't the NBA of NFL draft. The sooner fans realize that, the better.

The Rangers one is a very, very poor example as well since it has only been 2 years since that draft and neither McIlrath or Tarasenko has played in the NHl, while Fowler has not knocked anybody's socks off.

You know why nobody is regretting passing on Grigorenko? Because every single team knew his production would be where it is at right now. Everybody in the world know he would tear up that league this year. That's not what drafting's about. But keep on thinking that.

You're not getting my point. Grigorenko was/is top3 talent in the 2012 draft. He should have never dropped at 12, it's a known fact that NHL scouts are way too conservative. Those who succeed, are the ones who go on instinct and guts.

[yougo]

Most expected Grigorenko to slide, it was Forsberg that was the surprise slide.

Lets wait 4-5 years before we determine who regrets what pick, if at all. Just because he's rippin up the Q, that means little. Teams didnt pass on him because of his lack of scoring. Everyone already knew he could score. Alexandre Daigle could score too.

NHL teams dont draft like fantasy hockey teams draft, keep that in mind too.

I know that they are not drafting fantasy teams, but NHL teams should always draft the BPA. IMO, and I'm pretty sure in the long term I will be right, after Yakupov, Grigorenko was the BPA. He was also a much less risky pick than Galchenyuk ( no knock on Gally, he's a stud).
Grigorenko has gamebreaking abilities. Out of this world hockey IQ. He's going to be an all-star.

[Big Ev]

You're not getting my point. Grigorenko was/is top3 talent in the 2012 draft. He should have never dropped at 12, it's a known fact that NHL scouts are way too conservative. Those who succeed, are the ones who go on instinct and guts.

Do you not see that this comment makes little to no sense? "Those who succeed go on instinct and guts". What the heck do you think each team that picked before Buffalo was doing? They were going with their gut. They were going with THEIR BPA. I don't know how many times this needs to be stressed.

[yougo]

Do you not see that this comment makes little to no sense? "Those who succeed go on instinct and guts". What the heck do you think each team that picked before Buffalo was doing? They were going with their gut. They were going with THEIR BPA. I don't know how many times this needs to be stressed.

If you think all teams have the BPA approach to drafting, you are wrong.

[Big Ev]

If you think all teams have the BPA approach to drafting, you are wrong.

Right, but you still didn't address your previous poor comment which was "Since teams didn't pick Grigorenko, they weren't going with their gut or instinct, thus they won't have success".

All I need to know from your posting history is you have a strong Q bias and you haven't really seen much of the other players in any other league.

I'm done here.

[Axeman33]

Team will draft on the BPA, but they also base their pick on overall team needs as well as interviews conducted prior to the draft.

If every GM drafted simply on numbers then your arguement makes sense. He's a scoring machine. Teams dont draft simply based on numbers. Theres a lot more that goes into making a pick then a players ability to put the puck in the net.

[yougo]

Right, but you still didn't address your previous poor comment which was "Since teams didn't pick Grigorenko, they weren't going with their gut or instinct, thus they won't have success".

All I need to know from your posting history is you have a strong Q bias and you haven't really seen much of the other players in any other league.

I'm done here.

You are totally right that I have a Q bias which is why I am so high on Grigorenko. But I also think that he was superior to Huberdeau & Couturier in their draft year which indicates me that he shouldn't have been drafted before #12. Also, I do not think that drafting defenseman, especially defensive-2way D (IE: Murray,Reinhart,Trouba,McIlrath) with a top15 is a good thing when there is always someone with better offensive upside. History has shown that top offensive players are usually drafted in the early part of the first round.


I didn't explain myself correctly when I said that ''teams going the safe route are not going to succeed''. My original thought, that I should have written, was that : Teams who draft based on their depth needs or by ''playing it safe'' lower their chance at success.

As an exemple, I do not think that Columbus made a mistake by drafting Zherdev or Filatov a couple years ago. They both had a crazy amount of upside that justified their pick. Even thought the Leafs turned Schenn into JvR this summer, I still think to this day that drafting Luke Schenn #5 was a big mistake. Schenn never had the skills to become a franchise/top pairing defenseman. Had I been part of the Leafs organization, I would have felt good drafting Filatov knowing that he could become a superstar than drafting a player with no flavour like Schenn.

I'm not sure if this is any clearer..

[sparrowtrini]

Ummmm....might Grigorenko being a KHL risk have anything to do with it?

[Fast Tony DeNiro]

Ummmm....might Grigorenko being a KHL risk have anything to do with it?

He's only a KHL risk because of where he was born. He's showed no indication of planning to play in Russia. I honestly don't feel like the KHL risk had anything to do with Grigo's fall....it was his perceived lack of "heart" or whatever BS buzzword hockey people like to use. He gutted out a playoff run with mono.....when I had mono I couldn't even get out of bed let alone play hockey.

At this time last season, Grigorenko had 44 points, compared to 43 this year. Same number of games. He's only getting so much press this year because he's been drafted now and more people know who he is.

His big test will be the last 40 games of the season. That's where he began to fall off last year.....ankle injury, mono, conditioning problems.....whatever it was, he had roughly 40 points in his last 40 games after such a great start. If the conditioning has been taken care of, he will destroy the Quebec league this year. If he's still having trouble with the longer season, he'll tail off again.

From here on out is where we'll really see if Grigorenko has improved since last season or not.