Pens going forward

[Carcillo]

Asham got my respect when our guy got angled into the boards and crushed by an oncoming Flyer (Schenn) and Asham rips right into him with a crosscheck as if to say "don't **** with my team and don't **** with my stars".

That was an idiotic move by Asham. Absolutely unnecessary. He certainly didn't get my respect by pulling that disgraceful stunt.

Anyways, the "star" Schenn hit in that situation was Paul Martin and Martin got a concussion as a result of that hit. But the hit was clean and there's no excuse for Asham's actions.

[ovi42]

Nice post Flyer Fan, this is what I agree with totally.

Asham has heart and is a great teammate.

I've always thought that the Pens organization has failed to protect their stars. Lemieux had no back-up, Malkin and Crosby never really had a capable back-up that would be there within seconds of being roughed up. Asham got my respect when our guy got angled into the boards and crushed by an oncoming Flyer (Schenn) and Asham rips right into him with a crosscheck as if to say "don't **** with my team and don't **** with my stars".

He may not be all that big but he does what he can to protect his teammates. That he can skate/play is a bonus.

I agree with your premise here; but this is a terrible example. That play was completley uncalled for. He looked like a lunatic. Combine that with a few other meathead plays throughout the year and I think the Pens can find someone to replace Asham who can take care of business with a little more class and respect.

[Nehithaw]

That was an idiotic move by Asham. Absolutely unnecessary. He certainly didn't get my respect by pulling that disgraceful stunt.

Anyways, the "star" Schenn hit in that situation was Paul Martin and Martin got a concussion as a result of that hit. But the hit was clean and there's no excuse for Asham's actions.

Different strokes for different folks , I guess.

For me, that is what playoff hockey is all about. It may be different for someone that didn't play hockey that way.

I won't get into the 'Paul Martin is a star thing'. Asham also protects Sid. Asham wasn't only involved in that one incident. For shits and giggles (and I don't know the answer to this) Did any Pittsburgh Penguin get injured by a malicious play by a Flyer after Asham sent the message?

[Carcillo]

Different strokes for different folks , I guess.

For me, that is what playoff hockey is all about. It may be different for someone that didn't play hockey that way.

I won't get into the 'Paul Martin is a star thing'. Asham also protects Sid. Asham wasn't only involved in that one incident. For shits and giggles (and I don't know the answer to this) Did any Pittsburgh Penguin get injured by a malicious play by a Flyer after Asham sent the message?

I'm all for tough, physical play. But not the way Asham acted there.

It's also hard to protect Sid when you're in the pressbox watching games because you're suspended.

I agree with your premise here; but this is a terrible example. That play was completley uncalled for. He looked like a lunatic. Combine that with a few other meathead plays throughout the year and I think the Pens can find someone to replace Asham who can take care of business with a little more class and respect.

What were the other meatheaded plays by Asham this year? I can only think that one. Otherwise he's a tough but honest player.

[Mr Zizzla]

@grindin griers
how about we pull the trigger on Martin for Clutterbuck?

Clutterbuck becomes the new Talbot in PIT, Martin's contract is gone and the Pens have a new jersey to sell.

[Nehithaw]

I agree with your premise here; but this is a terrible example. That play was completley uncalled for. He looked like a lunatic. Combine that with a few other meathead plays throughout the year and I think the Pens can find someone to replace Asham who can take care of business with a little more class and respect.

They probably could and might find someone else to do the job. If they do, I'll say "thank you Arron Asham for your services. Thank you for laying your heart on the line for my Pittsburgh Penguins"

You've got to remember, the job of a scrapper in hockey is not a pretty business. They often get villified for the ugly stuff that they do. Off the ice, class and respect may be a word to describe some of these tough guys...on the ice? Completely different story. These are the guys that everyone likes to shit on - "He should have gotten suspended 20 more games than he did" is something you'll often hear about them. Many people that follow hockey will say; "we don't need that kind of garbage in hockey". I say bullshit!

Somebody has to do the dirty work. In all walks of life, someone has to do the dirty work. For the Pens, it was Arron Asham.

I'm of the opinion that NHL teams need someone tough and kind of crazy enough to do the dirty work when it needs to be done. The NHL has changed somewhat. Gone are the times when a team carried a goon to fight 'after the fact'. Teams are so skilled now that they can't really afford to take up a valuable roster spot on a goon that will only play a few minutes a game. Teams need an enforcer that can also play the game at a decent level - Chris Neil and Milan Lucic come to mind. If I were Shero, I would go find a winger that can score and still be tough enough to answer the bell when it needs to be answered - immediately. That is why I don't have much of a problem with the crosscheck. Sure, it was malicious, it can't be denied. This is how I look at it - Martin was taken out by two guys. The first one angled him into the boards, then Schenn came in and rocked Martin. Schenn was the third man in. Asham responded immediately. There is a huge difference between getting a guy back later and getting him RIGHT NOW. The message is sent. To the opponents that message is: the same thing will happen to you if you try that shit again. To their teammates the message is: I will be there for you if you need me. I will do anything it takes to help you in your quest. This is the kind of guy I want in my corner should the need arise.

[letangerang58]

@Flyer Fan your analysis was great and I think most of your points were spot on.

Re: Asham
I also think the Pens should bring Asham back. Is there a team in the NHL that doesn't have at least 1 goon? Its a nessecary evil to have a goon on your team and as far as goons go I would rather have a guy like Asham who can goon it up while not being a completely worthless player in game.

[grindin griers]

@grindin griers
how about we pull the trigger on Martin for Clutterbuck?

Clutterbuck becomes the new Talbot in PIT, Martin's contract is gone and the Pens have a new jersey to sell.

To be honest that is what I feel could possibly happen. Chuck has showed that he is willing to trade fan favorites if he thinks he needs to. The Wild also have a ton of prospects that will at least fit the bill of a Clutterbuck, primarily Brett Bulmer. The only problem I have is that we could use a guy that could actually shoot the puck from the backend and by the sounds of it Martin wouldn't fill that need. I think he would still be welcomed though because our D needs some desperate improvement.

[letangerang58]

@grindin griers
how about we pull the trigger on Martin for Clutterbuck?

Clutterbuck becomes the new Talbot in PIT, Martin's contract is gone and the Pens have a new jersey to sell.

Clutterbuck is no Talbot. Talbot is such a good fourth line guy and I think its going to be really hard to get another guy who can do the same things that Talbot did. I think Vitale has the potential of Talbot but we will have to see where things go with him. I don't think Clutterbuck for Martin would be a good trade but considering Martin's terribleness, his cap hit, and the fact that he has a concussion that may be all we'll be able to get for him.

[letangerang58]

I really felt like Shero should have made a move at the deadline.

Imagine if the Pens would have traded a first round pick for Gaustad. Staal could have played with Crosby full time and our PK would have been much improved. Actually now that I think of it I think it would be a good idea for the Pens to go after him in free agency if he is available.

[Carcillo]

I really felt like Shero should have made a move at the deadline.

Imagine if the Pens would have traded a first round pick for Gaustad. Staal could have played with Crosby full time and our PK would have been much improved. Actually now that I think of it I think it would be a good idea for the Pens to go after him in free agency if he is available.

Well you can look this in hindsight and say Pens should have done that, but at the time I would have hated the deal and who knows if it would have even changed the end result at all. I'm happy the Penguins kept the 1st rounder.

I would like to have Gaustad on Penguins but unfortunately he's most likely too pricey for them. I'd rather use the money to upgrade Sullivan as a top-6'er, or to improve the D, than have another guy making 2+ million on bottom-6. That said, if we could sign Gaustad and then move Kennedy for a prospect or draft pick, now that's worth exploring.

[letangerang58]

That said, if we could sign Gaustad and then move Kennedy for a prospect or draft pick, now that's worth exploring.

Yea, I was trying to figure out who would have to go and I think TK is probably the most expendable that would make a difference towards the cap.

[Mr Zizzla]

Clutterbuck is no Talbot. Talbot is such a good fourth line guy and I think its going to be really hard to get another guy who can do the same things that Talbot did. I think Vitale has the potential of Talbot but we will have to see where things go with him. I don't think Clutterbuck for Martin would be a good trade but considering Martin's terribleness, his cap hit, and the fact that he has a concussion that may be all we'll be able to get for him.

You must be a Talbot fan but in reality, Talbot is replaceable. Most bottom 6ers are.
This is a very unlikely scenario but it's not a bad deal.
The fact is Clutterbuck is a league leader in hits which would make the bottom 6 tougher to play against, he can chip in with some offense, plays in all situations and has a Talbot-esque fan favourite persona.

Last 3 seasons:
Talbot ---- Clutterbuck
208 --GP-- 224
29 --G-- 47
33 --A-- 35
62 --P-- 82
-7 +/- -17
155 -PIM- 234
381 -Hits- 942
112 --BS-- 92
2 --PPP-- 13
6 --SHG-- 7
281 --SOG-- 488

Clutterbuck has the edge in most of the categories, albeit he has played 16 more games, and some of them are by a very wide margin: goals, hits, sog and pim. Although the PIM count isn't great, it's not unreasonable and would add some much needed grit to the bottom 6 with Asham gone.

In the Penguins history, there will be no replacing Max Talbot (i was a big fan of his too almost naming my dog after him) but he's gone and will never be back and Clutterbuck in my opinion would be a great fit to bring that needed punch to the bottom 6 and in the locker room.

again i doubt this would happen but i need to think about something amusing since the Capitals and Flyers are now both moving on....sigh.

[letangerang58]

You must be a Talbot fan but in reality, Talbot is replaceable. Most bottom 6ers are.
This is a very unlikely scenario but it's not a bad deal.
The fact is Clutterbuck is a league leader in hits which would make the bottom 6 tougher to play against, he can chip in with some offense, plays in all situations and has a Talbot-esque fan favourite persona.

Last 3 seasons:
Talbot ---- Clutterbuck
208 --GP-- 224
29 --G-- 47
33 --A-- 35
62 --P-- 82
-7 +/- -17
155 -PIM- 234
381 -Hits- 942
112 --BS-- 92
2 --PPP-- 13
6 --SHG-- 7
281 --SOG-- 488

Clutterbuck has the edge in most of the categories, albeit he has played 16 more games, and some of them are by a very wide margin: goals, hits, sog and pim. Although the PIM count isn't great, it's not unreasonable and would add some much needed grit to the bottom 6 with Asham gone.

In the Penguins history, there will be no replacing Max Talbot (i was a big fan of his too almost naming my dog after him) but he's gone and will never be back and Clutterbuck in my opinion would be a great fit to bring that needed punch to the bottom 6 and in the locker room.

again i doubt this would happen but i need to think about something amusing since the Capitals and Flyers are now both moving on....sigh.

I was a Talbot fan...

You can't show the best things that Talbot offers in statistics. Talbot was never a scorer he was a defensive player with a lot of off ice intangibles. I'll admit that I don't know a lot about Clutterbuck but I just don't see him being able to match up to Talbot's defensive play or his intangibles.

[Carcillo]

I loved Talbot as much as any Pens fan but the fact is, he was easily replaceable on the ice. Talbot's play dropped off after the Stanley Cup heroics and he wasn't that good in his final two seasons. I'd say Vitale pretty much replaced his presence on the ice this year. I don't see Talbot having as good season this year as he had if he stayed with the Penguins. The intangibles are a different thing and Talbot definitely steps up in the playoffs but he wasn't irreplaceable.

I'd love that that Martin for Clutterbuck deal. Clutterbuck would fit this team perfectly. Minnesota's organisation has tight connections to Pittsburgh (Fletcher, Yeo...), Martin is from Minnesota... make this happen Shero.