Pssst, Sundin, Cliff here. Go along with this, ok?

[coldsquad2002]

It is a possibility that the Leafs may do nothing due to the movement clauses of Sundin, Kaberle, McCabe, Pavel Kubina and Darcy Tucker.

[smoothfun]

the reality is that none of us know what sundin or the leafs\' will do , yes dobber you\'re probably on the right track with your assumption of the discussion(s) between fletcher and sundin , but there is a lot to be said for anonymous and his view on how matts may be thinking.even though this is a business it sure is nice to see one of a few true team players struggling with the thought of leaving the flock , even when there is an opportunity to win the cup!truly a one team man,honorable in todays nhl.realistically i see sundin on the move , personally i hope he stays and toronto deals some others , kaberle included , he does\'nt impress me. oh dobber , stop and think about your response to shoeless , you\'re not in this to hit the the airwaves or fancy t.v. shows , you\'re happy with your site and your flock , hum , maybe thats just how matts sundin feels!?that was a compliment not and insult , but i bet it will make you look at this a bit deeper.

[Dobber]

It makes me wonder sometimes though if Ferguson signed him to a one year deal only with this kind of situation in mind? Theres\' a lot to think about.

I truly believe this to be the case, Anonymous.

Dobber included, I don\'t think a lot of Toronto fans realise that you are asking Mats to completely change the life he has had for over 10 years. He is incredibly involved in the Toronto community, and waiving a no trade clause isn\'t just a hockey decision.

I honestly believe this to be true as well, but I completely believe that he will re-sign with the Leafs in the summer. Nothing is disrupted.
B)

[fzusher]

Flyer Fan wrote:

Man, ...I know it\'s the logical thing to do, but it\'s just hard to accept that trading Mats Sundin will help the Leafs.


I can\'t even picture him in another jersey. :unsure:

and I\'m a FLYERS fan! Imagine what it\'s gonna feel like to the Leafs fans.

to help your imagination

http://www.viewimages.com/Search.asp...partner=Google

[lockedge]

coldsquad2002 wrote:

Hey Dobber, I live just up the 401 from you in Trenton.

Off topic:

Trenton?
I live in Trenton.

Who\'d have thought such a small town would have two guys so in the know about hockey?(or at least two people with similar post counts)

On Topic:

No way Sundin signs back in with the Leafs if they pester him into the hole the media\'s already been digging for a while.
He\'ll be too jaded.

[Dobber]

He\'s not being pestered I told you - this has been everyone\'s plan since July. Stand firm about the NTC until the last minute, maximize value in eyes of GMs and perception in eyes of fans, then have teary press conference. Return in the summer.

Guys, at noon on Tuesday you will still hear that he wants to stay and will not waive his NTC. But he\'ll go.


And for the record I am a huge Sundin fan - one of the classiest hockey guys out there and there was a couple of years there where I thought he was a top three player in the entire league.

But if Sundin was 100% going to stay according to him and the Leafs - why haven\'t the Leafs signed him to a two-year contract extension?

He\'s gone. I would bet my house on it. And I think he will return. Wasn\'t everyone convinced two months ago that Selanne would retire? That was planned from the start, too. It\'s a PR game.
B)

[DobberManiac]

Hey Dobber,

as my handle says. I agree with you 100%.

you are a REALIST

[JIMMAY]

I agree too. For sundin it is great that he wants to stay with the leafs, but you have to think he wants at least one chance at the cup. Like Dobber, i think he will be gone on tuesday and back next year for two years just to finish off his career. The leafs could have signed him to an extension long ago.

[duducks]

Sundin has said he thinks the whole thing of winning a cup is being there from the start, and he doesn\'t like the idea of rental players.

While I 100% agree that its all PR, and hes as good as gone, I believe him about rental players. Hes a European, Olympics and World cups probably mean much to him than Stanley Cups, though like he said, winning on a team that you\'ve been a part of for years would be a great feeling/accomplishment.

So for me, I see it as Sundin maximizing his value for the team he\'ll be on next year. Not Sundin getting a chance to win a cup.

[Raistlin]

I don\'t agree with you Dobbs, I don\'t think Sundin is moving man. He is beyond such PR shananigans because his decision affects Kubina, Tucker and others... moreover, he cares a lot about his legacy in Toronto, this leads to:

A ) Him not wanting to go back on his word,
B ) Him wanting to be a leaf until his eventual retirement.

What do you think other GMs are thinking when they hear how much he wants to stay in TO.? Signing him long term is not a possibility, getting a very motivated Sundin to play in a uniform not blue&white is low.... they will back off on the very sweet deal that Fletcher is banking on.

[Dobber]

Raistlin wrote:

I don\'t agree with you Dobbs, I don\'t think Sundin is moving man. He is beyond such PR shananigans because his decision affects Kubina, Tucker and others... moreover, he cares a lot about his legacy in Toronto, this leads to:

A ) Him not wanting to go back on his word,
B ) Him wanting to be a leaf until his eventual retirement.

What do you think other GMs are thinking when they hear how much he wants to stay in TO.? Signing him long term is not a possibility, getting a very motivated Sundin to play in a uniform not blue&white is low.... they will back off on the very sweet deal that Fletcher is banking on.

Great points - especially other teams knowing they can\'t sign him long term. I may have to eat humble pie with this (won\'t be the first time) but I\'m sticking to my guns - Sundin is gone.
Can\'t dispute your points though. Much as I\'d like to haha

B)

[smoothfun]

as far as the latest news goes , matts is staying , although after one more day to think he may want to re-evaluate things.toronto has\'nt offered him anything for the future so he\'ll either have to retire or don a new uniform , and as much as i admire his rental player theory it lacks any merit as all he has to do is go to a non contender and start his quest for next year , maybe coloumbus or phoenix? if not for all the pressure , rumors and bullshit from the media and such maybe he could have remained a leaf and been re-signed but now unless he takes a huge pay cut to stay it seems like the writings on the wall.as much as this should have been sundins decission , it has been decided by others and he\'s in a no win situation as i see it , to stay now means he\'s the fall guy for the demise of the leafs\' in the future ; he might as well swallow his pride and pack up now , go where the pressure from the media is low , nashville?, and give his all to a new appreciative team. toronto has done nothing to make him feel proud of his commitment to their orginization as i see it.